[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Duke William of Normandy]

Portugal (2th

Ah, yes. Secondth. Jokes aside, Portugal is probably what I want up there i if had to choose, but I'll happy with whatever Firaxis chooses.

 

[Zaarin]

I'd consider Antioch "European", despite it being in Anatolia, considering it's Seleucid origins and being a Byzantine city in game but you are right.

And notice I did say they roughly stick to the same continent, not region, which is why Seoul becoming Babylon still makes my point that they both are located in Asia.

Right, and like I said, I'd expect Lisbon to become Copenhagen or something like that, but I think there is some wiggle room. As we both pointed out, you have to invoke some technicalities and bend some logic to make Antioch European.

Perhaps they introduced NFP by launching the most demanded while leaving the second most demanded last to keep the hype?

I think this is the case. I've seen some people on these boards almost hyperventilating at the possibility that Portugal might be excluded so their strategy seems to be working.

 

[Xandinho]

It has been suggested that if they had a second pass in mind, it would make sense to save one of the most requested Civs for that purpose.

But I think people's expectations of a second pass are even more tempered now than what they were 8-10 months ago.

I still think a smaller pack with three or four civs and an alt leader is stil a little likely. It's difficult to see them ending the game without another civ in North America, an Italian representation and a civ from North Africa, and especially, another Egyptian leader.

I think Ethiopia was second, but it was an elimination thread in which Portugal finished fourth. Unless you are talking about another poll in which I don't remember?

I found, this is the poll, it has a reasonable number of voters.

 

[Zaarin]

I still think a smaller pack with three or four civs and an alt leader is stil a little likely. It's difficult to see them ending the game without another civ in North America, an Italian representation and a civ from North Africa, and especially, another Egyptian leader.

While I'm inclined to believe NFP is the end and am iffy about further content, I wouldn't mind seeing something small like this.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I remember now this has come up before.

I think your reasoning is the wrong way around though. Being on a civ's city list is not a big impediment.

I agree that it can be taken off Spain's city list and made into a city-state. I was just pointing out it's current state as being a possible city in a major civilization.

I have noticed that city-states which change are usually restricted to the same continent, so in theory Lisbon would probably be another European city.

Imo, the Philippine city-state should be Tondo, so the Spain city list is even less of an issue than people think.

I found, this is the poll, it has a reasonable number of voters.

Oh there's the poll. I was wondering where that went. Interesting that Morocco and the Navajo are more popular than Italy. And Gran Colombia really isn't as popular as I remembered.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Right, and like I said, I'd expect Lisbon to become Copenhagen or something like that, but I think there is some wiggle room. As we both pointed out, you have to invoke some technicalities and bend some logic to make Antioch European.

I wouldn't mind wiggle room if that means it could possibly become Nassau or Port Royal. The suzerain bonus would still work right? You trade routes aren't going to have to worry about being plundered by pirates if you are allied to them.

I found, this is the poll, it has a reasonable number of voters.

Thanks. I forgot about that one.

Oh there's the poll. I was wondering where that went. Interesting that Morocco and the Navajo are more popular than Italy. And Gran Colombia really isn't as popular as I remembered.

I've learned that the idea of any post colonial civs getting in the game aren't as popular here on this forum. Gran Colombia might have been the most popular one out of them though.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I dunno, like it was said, those threads did guess on every civ from the pass. Heck, I personally even made my predictions way back when the pass was being announced and up to now only got the European Civs wrong (I bet on Portugal and Ireland at the time xD).

Still, I don't quite get why this forum, in particular, thinks that Portugal or a Native American civ will be picked... Kind of a weird outlier from other communities now that I think about it, which is pretty interesting.

Anyway, I guess we will see. But I do have a bet on the last civ being Oceanic with a small side bet for the Phillippines. xP

what have other forums decided on?

I doubt the last civ will be Portugal, but North American Native Americans, Oceania or North Africa are decent bets

 

[Aurelesk]

I also really doubt they are going to put Portugal as the last civilization for this Pass. If they attempt to do some sort of rotation for European civilizations and avoid to be too crowded: they could go for a Portugal / Netherlands rotation (assuming Spain is a staple). Which feel extremely wrong, but it "works": they are kind of a trade / exploration / maritime civilization.

I believe they went for some kind of "continent" from West to East: America (Gran Colombia & Maya), Africa (Ethiopia), Europe (Byzantium & Gaul), Middle East (Babylon) and Asia (Kublai Khan & Vietnam). Either they go for an Eastern civilization like the Philippines or some Oceania one, like Tonga / Hawai. As long it is not New Zealand.
So I believe it is Tonga time!

Also, there's this awesome graphic done by @Lordeus. It's not up to date:

Do you want an half done, rip off ,up to date, poorly done (screen shot of a sheet on MSpaint), hugely controversial version of it with only the civilization list? No? Too bad!

Spoiler :

In blue: from the original picture. Basicly, those from the same theme.
In yellow: my own addition. Clearly not the same, but it feels that the inclusion of one lower the chance of the other to appear.

About the Sioux, Iroquois and the Cree: they are not the same: not the same area, not the same people. I want to see the Iroquois in the game, but I feel the inclusion of the Cree lower the chance of the Iroquois or the Sioux (or any north America native american civilization) to show up, even if it is the least unlikely of the whole.
From gameplay perspective, the Iroquois and the Cree are the "friendly trading native american" civilization that search to seal Alliance. If the Iroquois are coming back in Civilization VI, they need an other focus (hopefully: not a "friendly" one).

Sumeria and Assyria: same area, not the same civilization. I believe the inclusion of one exclude the second, even if it feels extremely wrong.

Austria and Hungary: Not the same area, not the same civilization. From gameplay perspective, they both are surprisingly close. They focus over the control of City-State and have the same unique unit: the Hussar / Huszár. They were also once a single empire (the Austrian-Hungarian empire), this leads to think that Austria inclusion is rather unlikely.

Huns and Scythia: They are the horse ridding nomadic people from Central Asia. Not the same era, nor the same civilization, I believe we are in the Sumeria / Assyria case.

Shoshone and Mapuche: this is going to be the most controversial. How could I team up these civilizations when they are not even sharing the same hemisphere. You are right: it doesn't make sense. They are nothing alike. It is like saying that Shoshone and Russia are the same for the tile grabbing mechanic, or with the Cree for having a unique Scout, or with the Mapuche for having a unique Cavalry unit and some "defense of the native land" mechanic. And I took the last argument: "the defense of the native land" with a cavalry unit. It sounds cheap, and it is. But the point is, if the Shoshone are coming back, they need a new focus.

If they redo a new Pass, I hope we could see some of this civilizations:

1. Iroquois & Haiti
2. Benin/Dahomey (or Ashanti) & Morocco/Berbers.
3. Portugal (maybe the Franks for Charlemagne, but "too much french related civilization" is a good argument)
4. Assyria and/or the Hitttes
5. Philippines (but I like to be disappointed, and this civilization starts to be oddly popular).

O they could do the "everyone is here" and put back all civilizations, excluding the blobs one (Celts, Vikings, Native American, Polynesia...), which means we would have the Iroquois, Shoshone and Sioux all at once, I guess.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Instead of trying to predict what the last NFP civ, I'm focusing on the implications of who it is. If it's Portugal, it means that there will likely be no more content in the future. If it not Portugal, then I think there may be some additional content that includes Portugal in the future.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Instead of trying to predict what the last NFP civ, I'm focusing on the implications of who it is. If it's Portugal, it means that there will likely be no more content in the future. If it not Portugal, then I think there may be some additional content that includes Portugal in the future.

Wise choice. I think everyone has agreed about this somewhat, though.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I also really doubt they are going to put Portugal as the last civilization for this Pass. If they attempt to do some sort of rotation for European civilizations and avoid to be too crowded: they could go for a Portugal / Netherlands rotation (assuming Spain is a staple). Which feel extremely wrong, but it "works": they are kind of a trade / exploration / maritime civilization.

Considering Netherlands and Portugal has co-existed for the past 3 games I doubt they will start doing that.

About the Sioux, Iroquois and the Cree: they are not the same: not the same area, not the same people. I want to see the Iroquois in the game, but I feel the inclusion of the Cree lower the chance of the Iroquois or the Sioux (or any north America native american civilization) to show up, even if it is the least unlikely of the whole.
From gameplay perspective, the Iroquois and the Cree are the "friendly trading native american" civilization that search to seal Alliance. If the Iroquois are coming back in Civilization VI, they need an other focus (hopefully: not a "friendly" one).

Interesting enough I also found that Vietnam took away the Iroquois ability they had in Civ 5 for units to move faster through woods and rainforests. Though that's not a big deal as I can see their UU getting that instead of all the units.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Considering Netherlands and Portugal has co-existed for the past 3 games I doubt they will start doing that.

Seeing as Civ 6 Netherlands has nothing to do with maritime trading or a colonial empire, Portugal certainly seems right.

 

[Zaarin]

Interesting enough I also found that Vietnam took away the Iroquois ability they had in Civ 5 for units to move faster through woods and rainforests. Though that's not a big deal as I can see their UU getting that instead of all the units.

Honestly I'd rather not see the Iroquois portrayed as stereotypical treehugging eco-Indians anyway. Might as well have "the Native Americans" back led by Chakotay at that point.

 

[SMcM]

Probably a tangent, but my one issue with that graphic by Lordeus is how debatable that the 'equivalent civilizations' thing is. While it makes sense, I think the example of Celts and Scotland exposes the problem with this; with Gaul in the game too, it is clear that their thinking does not always involve using one civ to represent a range of related cultures. They may sometimes have multiple of these supposedly interchangeable civs.

For another example, I don't feel that Khmer being in the game rules out having Siam. So far they seem to like using one civ to represent mainland southeast Asia, but we can't guarantee that will continue- they could easily have both of those, or one of those plus Burma, etc.

It is also the case that (so far) there has not been a game with both Sumeria and Assyria, so that could be considered a 'regional rotation'. Austria and Hungary the same could be argued for also- they may not speak related languages or anything, but Khmer and Siam are not the same language family either. I have seen people argue Scythia is in the place of Huns.

Of course some examples, e.g. 'Native Americans' for Sioux are more clear cut.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Khmer and Siam are not the same language family either.

Very true. Siamese (Thai) incorporates a lot of "high" vocab from Khmer (Cambodian), and religious texts are still written in Khmer script (but Pali language). While French and Latin are much closer than Thai and Khmer (the latter are, as you say, not in the same family, don't have the same script; Thai is tonal while Khmer is not) one might see this as a question of "why have France when you have Rome?"

Also one could take a pass at that list and cut those civilizations who would not approve of being in the game, or who have prohibitions on depictions of the ancestors.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Also one could take a pass at that list and cut those civilizations who would not approve of being in the game, or who have prohibitions on depictions of the ancestors.

A.K.A. The Pueblo and the Aboriginal Australians, to my knowledge.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Seeing as Civ 6 Netherlands has nothing to do with maritime trading or a colonial empire, Portugal certainly seems right.

Wilhelmina doesn't trade?
I think the references are there in gameplay, but subtle.

Honestly I'd rather not see the Iroquois portrayed as stereotypical treehugging eco-Indians anyway. Might as well have "the Native Americans" back led by Chakotay at that point.

I was only relating it to fact that Vietnam has guerilla warfare tactics especially in woods and rainforests. There would be no reason why a unique unit couldn't have it though. It was the Iroquois guerilla tactics that the American revolutionaries copied to defeat the British.

Probably a tangent, but my one issue with that graphic by Lordeus is how debatable that the 'equivalent civilizations' thing is. While it makes sense, I think the example of Celts and Scotland exposes the problem with this; with Gaul in the game too, it is clear that their thinking does not always involve using one civ to represent a range of related cultures. They may sometimes have multiple of these supposedly interchangeable civs.

For another example, I don't feel that Khmer being in the game rules out having Siam. So far they seem to like using one civ to represent mainland southeast Asia, but we can't guarantee that will continue- they could easily have both of those, or one of those plus Burma, etc.

To be fair that chart was made pre NFP, and before Gaul and was even announced, so I think saying that Scotland equals Celts, was a relatable comparison at the time, considering in Civ 5 their capital was Edinburgh.

Also we got Vietnam as a second mainland SEA civ.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Wilhelmina doesn't trade?
I think the references are there in gameplay, but subtle.

Maritime trade. I see your point, but it really isn't that much of a bonus.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Maritime trade. I see your point, but it really isn't that much of a bonus.

I think prioritizing building harbors in their unique ability, over commercial hubs, is supposed to reference it but I agree that they don't get direct bonuses for trading across the water.

I think the closest thing to maritime trading bonuses in the game is actually Phoenicia's bireme which prevents traders from being pillaged within 4 tiles of the unit, which is similar to Lisbon's suzerain ability already.

 

[AntSou]

While it makes sense, I think the example of Celts and Scotland exposes the problem with this; with Gaul in the game too, it is clear that their thinking does not always involve using one civ to represent a range of related cultures.

I disagree there. I think the incorrect assumption there was by Lordeus, who chose to associate Scotland with the Celts.

I see the Gauls as the only true Celtic representatives in the game. Scotland is imo another variant of the Anglophone sphere in a game packed with them.