pre-release info Civilization VII - Content Spreadsheet Thread - Civ overview!

[Jeppetto]

Wait why can Asians reject them but Europeans can't?

 

[gdr_willter]

Wait why can Asians reject them but Europeans can't?

That's The White Man's Burden.

 

[Seek]

I don't understand why Catherine has to lead to anything since Trung Trac doesn't have Vietnam?

Not to mention Amina, Charlemagne, Ibn Battuta and Machiavelli, none of whom have 1:1 associated civs.

 

[Zaarin]

Not to mention Amina, Charlemagne, Ibn Battuta and Machiavelli, none of whom have 1:1 associated civs.

And Himiko, who is nominally tied to Meiji Japan but about as directly related to it as Charlemagne is to Normans or France.

 

[notNamed]

And Himiko, who is nominally tied to Meiji Japan but about as directly related to it as Charlemagne is to Normans or France.

Himiko could be argued to be in the category of Trung Trac (no civ, but if we get some Vietnam civ, it probably won't get its own leader with Trac acting the part) and Harriet Tubman.
Her importance for Meiji stems from the mythbuilding of Meiji period (purely indigenous rule and religion). Trung Trac is not a Yue leader but a pseudo-dress wearing parody used by modern Vietnam in its own nationbuilding myths (indigenous origin, national struggle against burgeois aristocracy and invaders). Mrs. Tubman likewise is a part of America's own molding of self-perception (fight for liberty and equality)... despite the game ending in the 1950s with racially segregated public offices, toilets, restaurants (ends de iure in 1964), Chinese Exclusion Act (ends in 1952), Anti-miscegenation laws (ruled unconstitutional in 1967) and likely much more.

And in the same vein, you can't forget Confucius.

 

[Guandao]

Qing China has been officially revealed and the associated wonder isn't the Summer Palace, but Chengde Mountain Resort.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Qing China has been officially revealed and the associated wonder isn't the Summer Palace, but Chengde Mountain Resort.

Was it misidentified as the Summer Palace? We know that there are only 12 Wonders in the Modern Age, so there isn't room for the Summer Palace now

 

[Sagax]

Was it misidentified as the Summer Palace? We know that there are only 12 Wonders in the Modern Age, so there isn't room for the Summer Palace now

Pretty sure it was misidentified, and I don’t blame those who did. The in-game model for the resort evokes Summer Palace much more than Chengde Mountain Resort (google the images of both and compare).

 

[Rac]

Alright, finaly a new update here, it's quite a while a huh;
So Qing got their Game Guide showing their wonder actually being Chengde Mountain Resort and not the Qing's Summer Palace...
We got a new Idependent Power being the Saka (Khotan), as well quite a time ago we got direct look and confirmation of the Rewood Forest natural wonder too

That said, let talk a bit about the British and the last modern slot... I know, the only evidence for them is the use of London a primary example of civ swaping mechanic logic and that Oxford University building having modern elements. Now you may say these 2 things do not confirm them in the game, but in my view that would be such a weird publicity move to have your main example not hapening ingame that honestely simple does not make sense. I may be wrong after all, but until them I'll let Britain in blue here, as for either Russia or Germany/Prussia in that last slot, have not idea who they will pick.

 

[Wohlauf]

Alright, finaly a new update here, it's quite a while a huh;
So Qing got their Game Guide showing their wonder actually being Chengde Mountain Resort and not the Qing's Summer Palace...
We got a new Idependent Power being the Saka (Khotan), as well quite a time ago we got direct look and confirmation of the Rewood Forest natural wonder too

That said, let talk a bit about the British and the last modern slot... I know, the only evidence for them is the use of London a primary example of civ swaping mechanic logic and that Oxford University building having modern elements. Now you may say these 2 things do not confirm them in the game, but in my view that would be such a weird publicity move to have your main example not hapening ingame that honestely simple does not make sense. I may be wrong after all, but until them I'll let Britain in blue here, as for either Russia or Germany/Prussia in that last slot, have not idea who they will pick.

Fair enough point about Britain, though my opinion is that the "conjectured" color would fit better. I think there are two points that are relevant. First being the Pax Aus panel, with Ed Beech feeling the need to mention that bringing up civs was not a confirmation just after talking about London under Rome, the Normans, and modern day.
Second is from another interview around that same time with a dev saying something to the effect of: "not including Genghis Khan in civ 5 at launch was a mistake", and that that was a lesson to be applied to future titles.Yet, seemingly we are without Genghis at launch with Civ 7*.

My point with these two examples is that maybe the devs don't always choose their phrasing and examples perfectly or with the anticipation that it will be dissected as much as it has been, and maybe that's why the London example has been left behind, other than it becoming redundant.

*(Not that he couldn't still be revealed, but they've missed the boat with Mongolia and the entire exploration age, so the only reason he would be saved is if they believed he would generate a substantial amount of hype which I don't see being the case).

 

[cubecookie333]

Alright, finaly a new update here, it's quite a while a huh;
So Qing got their Game Guide showing their wonder actually being Chengde Mountain Resort and not the Qing's Summer Palace...
We got a new Idependent Power being the Saka (Khotan), as well quite a time ago we got direct look and confirmation of the Rewood Forest natural wonder too

That said, let talk a bit about the British and the last modern slot... I know, the only evidence for them is the use of London a primary example of civ swaping mechanic logic and that Oxford University building having modern elements. Now you may say these 2 things do not confirm them in the game, but in my view that would be such a weird publicity move to have your main example not hapening ingame that honestely simple does not make sense. I may be wrong after all, but until them I'll let Britain in blue here, as for either Russia or Germany/Prussia in that last slot, have not idea who they will pick.

Even if you do consider that the evidence available does justify the possibility, even a very probable one, of Britain being in the game, classifying it as "Confirmed" is very misleading and could cause confusion (as it already has). To say that Britain is as confirmed as Mexico or the Qing is simply wrong and that should be represented in the spreadsheet.

 

[sTAPler27]

My money is on Prussia over Germany. If they add Germany it will likely be a part of a DLC adding more modern, post mid 20th century, versions of the civs we've already seen

 

[stealth_nsk]

My money is on Prussia over Germany. If they add Germany it will likely be a part of a DLC adding more modern, post mid 20th century, versions of the civs we've already seen

I think they'll use Germany for now as it's much more recognizable.

For future contemporary era they could either rename it to Prussia retroactively, or just not use contemporary Germany at all, using EU instead.

 

[Uberfrog]

Even if you do consider that the evidence available does justify the possibility, even a very probable one, of Britain being in the game, classifying it as "Confirmed" is very misleading and could cause confusion (as it already has). To say that Britain is as confirmed as Mexico or the Qing is simply wrong and that should be represented in the spreadsheet.

Online gaming communities are doing to the word “confirmed” what has long since happened to “literally”.

Something is either confirmed (established beyond doubt) or it is not. Britain is clearly not confirmed.

 

[sTAPler27]

I think they'll use Germany for now as it's much more recognizable.

For future contemporary era they could either rename it to Prussia retroactively, or just not use contemporary Germany at all, using EU instead.

I think the retroactive naming is the most likely outcome of your takes given we have the Normans and France which feels like the most 1:1 parallel between Prussia and Germany. And it does seem like they try to implement name recognition when they can such as by throwing the modern country name after the Dynasty name for India and China.

For the EU thing I think they'd only go that route if the 4th age is represent more of a speculative future rather than representing our world up to today and the near future. The EU still is a collection of independent nations and I think a lot of European players would like the option to play as their countries rather than a governing body that could only represent the idea of Europe vaguely.

And that brings into question how the gameplay would work because if the game has several EU member states in the Modern age they'd all be vying for a singular option as their historical choice. Of course there are plenty of non EU states but given we already have France and likely a German civ, as well as other civs like Rome and Greece which might get more modern variations in the future, there would be a lot of sharing between them.

 

[Wohlauf]

I've gone back a forth quite a bit thinking about it. At first, Prussia seemed unlikely to me compared to Germany or the German Empire being the name. My reasoning was that the German Empire was already quite Prussian, at least in its government and diplomacy. So naming it the German Empire wouldn't change the flavor of Germany too much and would allow them to include more cities and geography like Hamburg and the Danube. But we've also seen rather specific civ choices that Prussia would be right at home with.

I think my main point against Prussia is their lack of a good, iconic UU. Germany as it existed in the years set by the modern age in game was defined by its military. Having an iconic military unit is arguably the most important thing to get right as far as generating hype and appeasing the wider fanbase. There's no way a Napoleonic era unit would be chosen over stormtroopers, u-boats, or one of the big cat tanks, none of which would be accurate to Prussia.

 

[sTAPler27]

I've gone back a forth quite a bit thinking about it. At first, Prussia seemed unlikely to me compared to Germany or the German Empire being the name. My reasoning was that the German Empire was already quite Prussian, at least in its government and diplomacy. So naming it the German Empire wouldn't change the flavor of Germany too much and would allow them to include more cities and geography like Hamburg and the Danube. But we've also seen rather specific civ choices that Prussia would be right at home with.

I think my main point against Prussia is their lack of a good, iconic UU. Germany as it existed in the years set by the modern age in game was defined by its military. Having an iconic military unit is arguably the most important thing to get right as far as generating hype and appeasing the wider fanbase. There's no way a Napoleonic era unit would be chosen over stormtroopers, u-boats, or one of the big cat tanks, none of which would be accurate to Prussia.

I mean they made up the unit for the Mississipians I think so they take some liberties if need be.

 

[Rac]

Another update: Lafayette is here, what a surprise? Also Eiffel Tower is confirmed to be the associated wonder of the... French Empire? So yeah about that, the name, at least for now, is indeed not France but French Empire which is kinda weird and a immense red flag for another "just" France civ eventually, so yeah... I gonna let it as France just like I let Normans be called Normandy just because sounds better... IDK, what you think?

And ok, you guys have a point, Britain is now appearing as conjectured instead of fully confirmed, I still feel it's been confirmed, but let it be

 

[chaosprophet]

I'm curious why many seems to be surprised it is French Empire, when I believe that name already was officially used when they mentioned it quite a while ago.

 

[Sagax]

I'm curious why many seems to be surprised it is French Empire, when I believe that name already was officially used when they mentioned it quite a while ago.

A few things have been discovered since the last time they mentioned the name:

1. Spain is just Spain, and in comparison it seems strange that they named the civ specifically French Empire instead of just France.

2. The civ design takes elements from both the French Empire and its periods of time as the Republic (maybe even moreso the latter). Feels odd, almost like if they added Russia as the Russian Empire, but its design had elements of USSR.