Clown Car VI: Hello, Goodbye. On to 2024.

[Sommerswerd]

That was poorly worded, I meant if she was president

So... if McCain had won... which he didn't, and if after winning, McCain abruptly died, which he didn't, or if Sarah Palin ran for POTUS, which she didn't, and if she won the election, which she didn't...

That's the hypothetical you're talking about? If so, then that is a completely pointless hypothetical that goes way to far afield with speculation and not really worth discussing. In other words, its a meaningless position.

 

[Lexicus]

Anakin: I have brought peace, freedom, and stability to my new empire!
Berzerker: wow, this guy should get a Nobel Peace Prize

 

[FriendlyFire]

The only potential bombing I remember was in response to a missile site on the Iranian coast that took out a drone. Trump decided against it because he didn't want to kill people over a machine.

Never able to connect the dots when it comes to making Trump look bad.
Youd think you would be able to connect them to Trumps appointment of a Neocon and hes neocon friends, with an planned airstrike on Iran. Or the tearing up of Obamas Iran plan, or the escalating attacks on ships, or the attacks on US forces in Iraq.
But McCain.

 

[Berzerker]

So... if McCain had won... which he didn't, and if after winning, McCain abruptly died, which he didn't, or if Sarah Palin ran for POTUS, which she didn't, and if she won the election, which she didn't...

That's the hypothetical you're talking about? If so, then that is a completely pointless hypothetical that goes way to far afield with speculation and not really worth discussing. In other words, its a meaningless position.

People were comparing McCain and Palin in his favor, I thought his track record was a disqualifier. Ofc if he had won I dont know if he would have destroyed Libya and Syria as a follow up to Bush invading Iraq, but I do think Palin would have been tougher to sell on the neocon agenda.

Anakin: I have brought peace, freedom, and stability to my new empire!
Berzerker: wow, this guy should get a Nobel Peace Prize

He did... and you voted for him.

Never able to connect the dots when it comes to making Trump look bad.
Youd think you would be able to connect them to Trumps appointment of a Neocon and hes neocon friends, with an planned airstrike on Iran. Or the tearing up of Obamas Iran plan, or the escalating attacks on ships, or the attacks on US forces in Iraq.
But McCain.

Trump didn't bomb Iran, he didn't start new wars, he spent his time dealing with wars he inherited and we're close to being out of the 2 worst if Biden will let it happen. Thankfully Joe's not fully in the neocon camp judging by his track record.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump didn't bomb Iran, he didn't start new wars, he spent his time dealing with wars he inherited and we're close to being out of the 2 worst if Biden will let it happen. Thankfully Joe's not fully in the neocon camp judging by his track record.

Well Obama didnt start new wars either then, he just inherited a destabilized middle east, rocked by drought, growing terrorism and botched invasions by hes predecessor
Praise Obama for not starting new wars

So I too can move the goal post to a new potion as well.

 

[Berzerker]

Well Obama didnt start new wars either then, he just inherited a destabilized middle east, rocked by drought, growing terrorism and botched invasions by hes predecessor
Praise Obama for not starting new wars

So I too can move the goal post to a new potion as well.

Where were the goalposts? Yes, Obama armed terrorists in Syria because the country was suffering from a drought. Hey, thin the herd before they starve. Bush didn't destroy Syria and Libya, those are Obama's legacy. Democrats will have to come to terms with that reality if they ever want people to think they occupy the moral high ground. I dont see or hear (m)any Republicans holding Bush up as their flagbearer, Obama needs to fall from grace too.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Where were the goalposts? Yes, Obama armed terrorists in Syria because the country was suffering from a drought. Hey, thin the herd before they starve. Bush didn't destroy Syria and Libya, those are Obama's legacy. Democrats will have to come to terms with that reality if they ever want people to think they occupy the moral high ground. I dont see or hear (m)any Republicans holding Bush up as their flagbearer, Obama needs to fall from grace too.

The dot connector unable to connect Bush actions with increasing terrorism and destabilized middle east region ?
We going play word games again over starting war, intervening and escalating again ?
Obama intervention in Syria was a failure. Who is disputing this ?

I cannot imagine why Republicans would want to remember that they elected GWBush TWICE.
and have GWBush hold rallies to remind them of hes legacy.

 

[Berzerker]

Oh I have no problem connecting Bush to the results of invading Iraq, but Libya and Syria were Obama's foreign policy. We were being kicked out of Iraq, we needed new fronts for our war on terror. Libya, Syria, and Yemen were waiting in the wings. So Obama didn't start our war in Syria, he intervened. Fine. He did that in Libya too. Yemen? Yeah, Trump is a warmonger and Obama intervenes...to save lives no doubt.

Obama got elected twice, Libya was his resume for Syria. But as Wesley Clark has taught me, this was our overall strategy after 9/11. We want the people we like to abuse their populations, we want authoritarian govts in control and on our side of course and the governments we dont like have to go. Obama was just following orders, but Russia and China dont want us toppling Syria and Iran. Libya had no benefactor, nor Yemen, Somalia, Sudan. It dont matter who gets elected prez, we have to feed the machine.

 

[Farm Boy]

Wise to move on from McCain. I realize Trump has genuine hemorrhoid-hurt from the moments his cowardice spent in the light of patriotism, but really. It was a pathetic display out of the oval office.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It was an embarrassment and I'm glad its over. Damn it if the price wasn't high.

 

[Lexicus]

Trump is a warmonger

Trump pardoned a war criminal who murdered women and children in Iraq

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yes, Obama armed terrorists in Syria because the country was suffering from a drought.

And Trump supported, encouraged and promoted white supremist terrorist in the US. Trump's domestic policy has been to fan the flames of armed insurrection within the US.

 

[Takhisis]

And Trump supported, encouraged and promoted white supremist terrorist in the US. Trump's domestic policy has been to fan the flames of armed insurrection within the US.

Your terrorists are our freedumb fighters.

 

[Berzerker]

Trump pardoned a war criminal who murdered women and children in Iraq

We were talking about warmongers? Bush and Obama destroyed countries and didn't need pardons.

And Trump supported, encouraged and promoted white supremist terrorist in the US. Trump's domestic policy has been to fan the flames of armed insurrection within the US.

Antifa and BLM predate Trump and the 1/6 riot was neither armed nor an insurrection, thats why people are being charged with vandalism and trespassing. Trump condemned white supremacists after Charlottesville.

 

[Takhisis]

Trump condemned white supremacists after Charlottesville.

The ones that were on both sides?

 

[Berzerker]

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/trump-has-condemned-white-supremacists/

So, contrary to Biden’s claim that Trump has “yet once to condemn white supremacy, the neo-Nazis,” in the course of two days, Trump did it twice.

Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.

Trump, Aug. 15, 2017: I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally.

 

[Birdjaguar]

You left out all the times he supported them, praised them at rallies.

And then there is this:

When Trump was in power, Gen. Mark Milley had to deal repeatedly with presidential rage.

According to CNN, Trump highlighted footage of confrontations between law enforcement officers and protesters and said: “That’s how you’re supposed to handle these people. Crack their skulls!” Trump also reportedly told law enforcement and military leaders he wanted the military to “beat the "f" out” of protesters and said: “Just shoot them.”

Bender reports that in the face of opposition from Milley and the then attorney general, William Barr, Trump said: “Well, shoot them in the leg – or maybe the foot. But be hard on them!” Milley is also reported to have told Stephen Miller, a senior Trump adviser, to “shut the f up”, after Miller said “cities are burning” amid protests prompted by the murder of George Floyd by a police officer in Minneapolis last May.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/25/donald-trump-general-mark-milley-crack-skulls

 

[FriendlyFire]

Oh I have no problem connecting Bush to the results of invading Iraq, but Libya and Syria were Obama's foreign policy. We were being kicked out of Iraq, we needed new fronts for our war on terror. Libya, Syria, and Yemen were waiting in the wings. So Obama didn't start our war in Syria, he intervened. Fine. He did that in Libya too. Yemen? Yeah, Trump is a warmonger and Obama intervenes...to save lives no doubt.

Obama got elected twice, Libya was his resume for Syria. But as Wesley Clark has taught me, this was our overall strategy after 9/11. We want the people we like to abuse their populations, we want authoritarian govts in control and on our side of course and the governments we dont like have to go. Obama was just following orders, but Russia and China dont want us toppling Syria and Iran. Libya had no benefactor, nor Yemen, Somalia, Sudan. It dont matter who gets elected prez, we have to feed the machine.

Obama Foreign policies in Syria and Libya are failures.

You want to defend Trump failure on Covid response by saying that the vast majority of the deaths lie elsewhere
But when it comes to Obama the majority of failed Syria is on Obama even though the US intervention was very much a joke well behind Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Trump pardoned a war criminal who murdered women and children in Iraq

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/22/obama-drones-trump-killings-count/

As of May 18, the Trump administration had launched 40 airstrikes in Somalia in 2020 alone. That figure is made all the more staggering by the fact that, from 2007 through 2016, the administrations of George W. Bush and Barack Obama conducted 41 airstrikes in Somalia total, according to reporting from Airwars.

[...]

As a candidate, Trump campaigned on a promise that the United States would not shy away from killing civilians in its wars abroad. In 2015, when asked what he would do if elected to defeat the Islamic State, then-candidate Trump said “you have to take out their families,” and he further promised that his administration would no longer be fighting what he perceived as Obama’s “politically correct war.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/28/us-afghanistan-war-bombs-2019

The US dropped more bombs on Afghanistan in 2019 than any other year since the Pentagon began keeping a tally in 2006, reflecting an apparent effort to force concessions from the Taliban at the negotiating table.

According to new figures released by US central command, US warplanes dropped 7,423 bombs and other munitions on Afghanistan, a nearly eightfold increase from 2015.

The increasing intensity of the air campaign has been accompanied by an increase in civilian casualties attributed to US forces. According to UN data, the US accounted for half the 1,149 civilian deaths attributed to pro-government forces in Afghanistan over the first three-quarters of 2019.

 

[Farm Boy]

The ones that were on both sides?

They are. Yes.