Colonialist Legacies’ Inuit for VP

[pineappledan]

I never would have been able to replicate that because I would have tested it with 4UC enables, which already enables that. The inuksuk’s tile claim would be disabled too.

 

[TranceBlossom]

Well I didn't have the 4UC mod enabled so that's why it wasn't working. You might want to either put that as a requirement, or add the XML to enable the tile improvement events. Just fyi

 

[Kim Dong Un]

Ran through 150 turns on Emperor to try these guys out again after recent updates, and my start was bad again (though I was testing out Communitu). What's weird is that Indonesia spawned underneath me with tundra, but I had jungle and quarries. I'll disregard though because of the script.

Good news is these frozen friends can hold there own even with starts that are less than ideal. I had not a single bonus from seals or igool/igluviak, yet managed to stay at or near the top of score for most of my time playing, granted I did have a successful war against Gajah and took 2 of his forward settled cities, but it was thanks to doggy spam (first 2 ruins gave me unit upgrade and map reveal, paired with the recon promo I had a beastly lvl 4 skirmisher less than 5 turns in lol) that I was able to take advantage of having a UU right out of the gate. Will try again sometime on a normal script where I'll hopefully get some damn snow!

 

[ridjack]

Ran through 150 turns on Emperor to try these guys out again after recent updates, and my start was bad again (though I was testing out Communitu). What's weird is that Indonesia spawned underneath me with tundra, but I had jungle and quarries. I'll disregard though because of the script.

Good news is these frozen friends can hold there own even with starts that are less than ideal. I had not a single bonus from seals or igool/igluviak, yet managed to stay at or near the top of score for most of my time playing, granted I did have a successful war against Gajah and took 2 of his forward settled cities, but it was thanks to doggy spam (first 2 ruins gave me unit upgrade and map reveal, paired with the recon promo I had a beastly lvl 4 skirmisher less than 5 turns in lol) that I was able to take advantage of having a UU right out of the gate. Will try again sometime on a normal script where I'll hopefully get some damn snow!

Every start I've had on Communitu has been covered in snow, tundra and ice.

@pineappledan Inuksuk appears to be doing something weird when it claims tiles. I couldn't buy a tile next to an Inuksuk-claimed tile, and hovering over the city isn't showing them as part of the city's territory:

Spoiler :

 

[pineappledan]

Known bug. Hard to set ownership of tiles and link it to specific city. Already tried to address this to no avail. Any tile you want to purchase needs to be adjacent to tiles which claimed via natural border growth or purchase.

 

[ridjack]

Known bug. Hard to set ownership of tiles and link it to specific city. Already tried to address this to no avail. Any tile you want to purchase needs to be adjacent to tiles which claimed via natural border growth or purchase.

Great Generals?

 

[pineappledan]

Yeah those are fine too. Free terrain from ruins too. You split them hairs.

 

[ridjack]

Yeah those are fine too. Free terrain from ruins too. You split them hairs.

Sorry, I guess that was really unclear in retrospect. What I meant was: Great Generals manage to do it, so what's the difference here?

 

[pineappledan]

Great Generals claim tiles via SQL and are integrated into the DLL. The Inuksuk only claims neutral tiles - you'll notice your inuksuk didn't steal that CS's forest tile - and it's a lua function. Giving city's ownership via lua should be possible, there's supposedly a function to set tile city ownership, but it doesn't seem to work.

 

[ridjack]

Great Generals claim tiles via SQL and are integrated into the DLL. The Inuksuk only claims neutral tiles - you'll notice your inuksuk didn't steal that CS's forest tile - and it's a lua function. Giving city's ownership via lua should be possible, there's supposedly a function to set tile city ownership, but it doesn't seem to work.

What about the code that Attila uses?

 

[pineappledan]

sql. integrated via dll, not triggered by an improvement. The inuksuk works differently from all of your examples.

 

[ridjack]

sql. integrated via dll, not triggered by an improvement. The inuksuk works differently from all of your examples.

Right, sorry. Didn't mean to annoy!

 

[pineappledan]

I know you're just trying to help. I've tried on my end to fix this issue, but it's a bit beyond me. Sorry if I sound a bit gruff.

 

[ridjack]

So it seems that the sled doggoes can't attack while on ice, but they can BE attacked? Intended or?

 

[pineappledan]

being on ice is weird. It's technically ocean tile with an impassable feature. It shouldn't be possible to be on those tiles unembarked, but Whoward figured out a way to do it. I just activated his code in the DLL, and it's got nothing to do with me. The fact that it works at all already feels like making the impossible happen.

 

[ridjack]

My Great Merchants appear to be unable to cross ice.

EDIT: Also, definitely not important, but when I reload an "initial save," I get an extra Qamutiik for each time I've loaded it. Two the second time, three the third time, etc.

 

[ridjack]

I'm on turn 316 of my current Emperor game, in the modern era. The game is likely to end soon, so I thought I'd give some thoughts while they're still somewhat fresh. I've only played this one game to any length with them, so that's all I'll speak about.

• Had an absolutely amazing start. Completely isolated with a huge tundra continent to myself and beautiful luxuries to work with.

Spoiler :

• With no clear focus in the Inuits' kit to inspire me, I went with Progress as the general catch-all tree, and later into Artistry to take full advantage of my luxuries and try for tourism. Rationalism was basically a default choice as the other two held nothing for me. Similar for Freedom.

• My culture generation in this game was absolutely nutso, bonkers, off-the-wall insane, loco and ridiculously disgusting. I really don't have enough words to describe how completely stupid my culture generation has been, so here are some pictures:

Culture vs Science (this is with five cities working the Arts process; somewhere around 2200-2300 if I took them all off it):


#1 civ (me) vs #2 civ (Carthage):

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

At one point in the game, I met a city-state with a "Generate the most culture" quest with like eight turns left. I still won.

• My sled dogs have never been upgraded. I'm in the Modern Era, I have four doggoes with Parthian Tactics and I've never had the horses to upgrade a single one of them.
• I'm pretty sure naval units, Inuit and non-Inuit both, are being allowed through ice. I haven't been able to sail onto ice personally, but I have been able to cross over and end my turn on the other side, like with deep ocean. Here's the AI with ships where they shouldn't be:

Spoiler :

There's also been a city-state that's been getting stolen from me constantly, despite the fact that non-Inuits should have no way of even meeting them:

Spoiler :

________________________________________________________________________



Despite being top civ, I feel like my game is probably going to end with me resigning in defeat. I never saw a clear path to victory; there's no focus anywhere in the Inuits' kit, so I decided to make my own way.

Since the Inuits' put quite a bit of culture onto tiles with Seals (3 with the monopoly bonus) and the Inuksuk (3 with all tech bonuses), and I got to my religion very late (literally last) and had extremely slim pickings, my "strategy" was somewhat cobbled together out of what was available to me. The plan I had in mind was to use that tile culture, my Gold and Lapis monopolies (2, 2 and 25% Golden Age length each) and Holy Sites with the Theocratic Rule bonus (+5 ; Holy Sites are currently worth 14 each in the Modern Era), and my vast tracts of land to convert as much of it as possible to Tourism with the Hotels and Stadiums and the like. I also was able to get Mosques and Stupas both, which gel quite nicely together, and planned to (and succeeded in) shoot for Sacred Sites as my Reformation belief.

In effect, I decided to try for a wide tourism game, which is something I've never attempted before.

Having never attempted wide tourism before, I actually had no idea that adding cities reduced your tourism generation by 5% each. I settled some late game cities in out of the way spots just because I could, and didn't notice until the third or fourth city that my tourism had plummeted from like 130 down to 90 or so. I probably never would have settled those cities in that case, since I don't think they have enough land to ever make up for the tourism they cost me. This might honestly be what costs me the game.

I'm just not sure I can scale the tourism up enough at this point to get me a victory. Egypt's culture has started rising dramatically, and my tourism has not kept up at all. There are still a lot of factors to come into play, but I'm not hopeful.

_________________________________________________________________________

More general thoughts:

UA seems perfect. I'd sorta like the extra movement to be extended to tundra just so they have a real benefit defending their homelands/conquering the poles, but I don't think it's a big deal.

Qamuttik: I love the sled doggoes, but they need horses to upgrade and horses are extremely scarce in tundra. It'd be nice if you could something similar to Iron Chariots, with a promotion or combination of promotions that they could keep on upgrade. It's really heartbreaking to have four units chilling at level 6 with no way to upgrade them unless I pay the AI's exorbitant prices, and of course that would only last until that AI got annoyed with me.

The Unatattik never saw a single turn of combat, so I can't comment on them.

Inuksuk: Amazing. Love em. Might be a bit OP, tbh, I'm not sure. My one game had a lot of bonuses to culture generation with permanent Golden Ages, WTLKDs and extra culture from both of those, plus my luxes... but I still feel like the culture I was generating was obscene. It's an n of 1, though, so.

Igloo: The only part of the kit I somewhat actively dislike. External Land Trade Routes are largely non-existent in a large number of polar environments, the Snow/Tundra bonuses are extraneous to the point of overkill, and the Igluviak ruined more Inuksuk setups than it paid for. Possibly the Coast/Ocean/Desert bonuses would be useful for an Inuit player moving away from the poles, but I can't comment on that situation.

If I were going to recommend any changes to the Inuit(and I'm not certain that I would), it would be to change the Igloo in a way that gives the civ even a gentle push towards one victory condition or another. I actually really liked the idea of wide tourism based on on-tile culture conversion and would love to see that rewarded in some way. To the best of my knowledge; the only civs that have anything close to that are Polynesia with the Moai and America with the Smithsonian. If that weren't on-theme enough, some boosts towards Science would be nice; as it is, the Inuit have none.

EDIT: the Inuit are quite strong. (Emperor difficulty.)

 

[pineappledan]

Wowzers, that's a great start location.

Re: wide tourism, yea, I went wide diplo when I did a full playthrough with Inuit. The raw bonuses needed to make wide cultural victories viable with tile improvements would cause a lot more problems than it would fix. Also consider that going this wide with that much snow/tundra to put that many inuksuks up is so rare that orienting the civ around that would just force players to reroll constantly. Also consider that the main yield on the Inuksuk is actually , not .

Re: the Igloo, I've never seen a continent like yours before, with snow tiles peppered in and amongst the tundra tiles. I can imagine that would cause a lot of problems, but your continent is just such a bizarre arrangement that I can't consider it a typical case. The Igluviak will only appear on snow tiles, and my own experience is that, since they don't have any yields, it is better to ignore those until a resource is found up there. However, I will say that the Igluviak will only spawn on tiles that don't already have an improvement. If they were messing up an excellent setup, then you obviously weren't fast enough . With that in mind, you should be able to coax an igluviak onto a specific tile by improving tiles you don't want it to spawn on, thus narrowing the valid tile choices.

The bonuses to TRs are the exact same as the caravansary's; Igloo doesn't provide any additional boni above the base building in that respect.

I thought it was super bizarre that you were even putting GPs into ice tiles, but seeing your map I think I understand now. GPs don't have a unit combat class, so I am not able to add the ice tile promotion onto them. As for enemy ships entering ice tiles, I believe any owned ice tile can be accessed by the player that owns the tile, regardless of what civ they are. Subs can enter neutral ice tiles, but regular ships require that you own the ice.

I'm going to be re-releasing the Inuit to add @TranceBlossom's settings recommendation, and I'm working on a fix for the extra Qamutiiks on reroll. Given how likely people are to reroll their maps with Inuit that's actually a pretty serious bug.

 

[ridjack]

Wowzers, that's a great start location.

Re: wide tourism, yea, I went wide diplo when I did a full playthrough with Inuit. The raw bonuses needed to make wide cultural victories viable with tile improvements would cause a lot more problems than it would fix. Also consider that going this wide with that much snow/tundra to put that many inuksuks up is so rare that orienting the civ around that would just force players to reroll constantly. Also consider that the main yield on the Inuksuk is actually , not .

Re: the Igloo, I've never seen a continent like yours before, with snow tiles peppered in and amongst the tundra tiles. I can imagine that would cause a lot of problems, but your continent is just such a bizarre arrangement that I can't consider it a typical case. The Igluviak will only appear on snow tiles, and my own experience is that, since they don't have any yields, it is better to ignore those until a resource is found up there. However, I will say that the Igluviak will only spawn on tiles that don't already have an improvement. If they were messing up an excellent setup, then you obviously weren't fast enough . With that in mind, you should be able to coax an igluviak onto a specific tile by improving tiles you don't want it to spawn on, thus narrowing the valid tile choices.

The bonuses to TRs are the exact same as the caravansary's; Igloo doesn't provide any additional boni above the base building in that respect.

I thought it was super bizarre that you were even putting GPs into ice tiles, but seeing your map I think I understand now. GPs don't have a unit combat class, so I am not able to add the ice tile promotion onto them. As for enemy ships entering ice tiles, I believe any owned ice tile can be accessed by the player that owns the tile, regardless of what civ they are. Subs can enter neutral ice tiles, but regular ships require that you own the ice.

I'm going to be re-releasing the Inuit to add @TranceBlossom's settings recommendation, and I'm working on a fix for the extra Qamutiiks on reroll. Given how likely people are to reroll their maps with Inuit that's actually a pretty serious bug.

This is Communitu_79, FWIW. I've done several starts with the Inuit on that map, this is just the first that I've taken beyond the early game. That geography is pretty standard for the map, from what I've seen. When this game makes failure clear, I'm quite possibly going to try with the Inuit again, and if I do I'll likely go back to Tectonics for it. Communutu has been pretty good in general, but there are some niggling problems that I think are exacerbated for the Inuit.

I only just realized the Unatattik's promotion is kept on upgrade; I'm probably going to have to delete all my former Unats to replace them with proper ranged units. This is really unfortunate in my case, since I didn't actually build a single one of them. They were all Bowmen from a nearby CS that I upgraded thinking that the Unat upgrades might get their range back; I never thought to check.

Re: Igloo, right, I realize they're no different from Caravansaries with the TR benefits, but it makes me wonder why it's a Caravansary. As far as I've been able to tell, Caravans can't travel on ice at all, so almost nothing about the Igloo has benefited me in any meaningful way, on this game or any other. I guess I'll see its uses if I keep trying with the Inuit, but the moment they escape me.

Re: GPs on ice; are they really that much different from their standard versions? I'm not doubting you; I'm genuinely a bit curious, since my normal Diplomats and Missionaries go ice-skating just fine.

I wish I'd known about the ice tile ownership situation. I settled a city right next to Incan lands and ignored who got the ice, since I didn't think it mattered. Now I'm likely going to lose a city, since I didn't bother with walls or anything as I thought the city was untouchable. Oh well, that's my own fault.

EDIT: What map do you balance around/play on?

 

[pineappledan]

Igloo is a caravansary because that’s where the yields per X tundra tiles worked ability is. I liked the tech level, and Inuit would build a caravansary in every tundra city anyways. Caravansary’s do NOT boost snow, however, so that was yet another reason to replace the caravansary with a building that encompasses Inuits’ playstyle fully.

GPs just don’t have a unit combat class. They don’t need one normally because no traits/wonders give promotions to them (except Inuit), and they don’t need a combat AI. Diplomats have 4-5 different buildings and wonders that assign them promotions, so they need a combat class.

the unatattik promotion also gives +25% defense, so you can effectively use them as melee units that don’t take return damage. The unatattik promotion combines very well with Gatling/machine guns’ covering fire promotion, so i found they were worth upgrading and keeping.

edit: I balance around continents