Consevative or Liberal?

Conservative or Liberal?

  • Conservative!

    Votes: 14 17.1%
  • Liberal!

    Votes: 44 53.7%
  • How cares?

    Votes: 24 29.3%

  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
US domestic policy is so one-dimensional. :sad: What should socialists, nationalists, theocrats, royalists and ecologists vote for?

hmmm, how about nationalist can fall under conservative, along with royalists maybe? idk. theocrats, no where, and eologists under liberal probably. Sorry there's not much variety, i didnt want this to be a thread that would get out of hand with political arguments, for two reasons, political arguments are ignorant in my view, and i already have two strikes on here for bad language, one more will probably mean bad.
 
I refuse this idiotic American dichotomy.
Thank you.

The world's not black and white, it doesn't help you to understand the complexity of our lives and states by labeling yourself liberal or conservative. I bet, if you did make some tests, many who label themselves liberal would be considerably conservative, and vice versa!

Thank you.

The liberal/conservative dichotomy is pure stupidity.
 
I am neither a conservative nor a liberal, thank you very much.

Huh, I've never really thought about the political orientation of CFCOTers before. I don't think anybody's ever made one of these polls. Thanks!

I'm a "How Cares" guy, fwiw.
:lol:

I'm conservative in some aspects and liberal in others. Seriously you can obtain better results through a political compass thread.
I disagree. The political compass is plain silly as far as I am concerned.


@ Civ_King

I didn't think about that... I had just used it in the American definition. We should probably use the terms "Objective Left Wing" and "Objective Right Wing" so as to find an absolute definition of left and right... even if that would cause most Americans to be Right Wing. :lol:
You mean like in that the thread that somebody with a striking resemblance to me started only a month ago?
That thread was, with te exception of some trolling by a resident man-child, quite a good one. However it turned out that quite a few here suffer from what I will call a Lord henry Wotton complex, they are simply scared of not being pomo enough. Anyway, I should probably dig it up again, and summarize my experiences and thoughts concerning it, since it was not devoid of interest.
And yes, going by the old and solid definitions, most Americans, at least most here are firmly to the right.

For us Europeans, a liberal is someone to the right of the political spectrum... ;-)
Indeed.

The world's not black and white, it doesn't help you to understand the complexity of our lives and states by labeling yourself liberal or conservative. I bet, if you did make some tests, many who label themselves liberal would be considerably conservative, and vice versa!
I think not.
While the world is not white and black, key issues in politics can very well be so. In short, I approve of Dante's concept of the vestibule in Hell.
 
Most liberals do. Either that or they identify themselves as "centrist" while tossing about silly terms like "reactionary". :)

:lol: American liberals are in no position to use the term "reactionary."

As I fall outside the realm of this silly dichotomy, I'm definitely a "how cares?" guy.
 
I think not.
While the world is not white and black, key issues in politics can very well be so. In short, I approve of Dante's concept of the vestibule in Hell.

(after looking up Dante's vestibule)

Yes. Most key (what exactly btw.?) issues in politics boil down to a dichotomy (yes or no) and labeling is important to make "the world (society, knowledge, etc.)" understandable. That is why we have parties in the end. Because they accelerate the process as it would be impossible to know everything. This is good.

But just two options is too simple. You can have completely different reasons to oppose something. Because the bill goes to far or because it doesn't go far enough. Or you want something different, because of morality, ecology, education, etc. ...

Simplification is good, Oversimplification not.


Besides, as I pointed out, there is the danger of labeling yourself as B because it suits you and your environment. (but you don't really care about politics or you just need to make a career).
 
...quite a few here suffer from what I will call a Lord henry Wotton complex
Since you appear to have some interest, if not skill, in coining such phrases, what would you call the tendency to accuse people with whom one disagrees of having psychological disorders of dubious validity?
 
Most liberals do. Either that or they identify themselves as "centrist" while tossing about silly terms like "reactionary". :)
I see you are obviously referring to me while trying to use general terms.

I try to only use that word in cases where I think it is clearly accurate, such as describing your own political views. Do you deny it?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reactionary

: relating to, marked by, or favoring reaction ; especially : ultraconservative in politics

And yes, once again I am a 'centrist' who actually leans a bit to the right, at least according to the political compass:

Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13

Let's see your own numbers.

And getting back to the topic at hand, where are centrists supposed to vote? How cares?
 
(after looking up Dante's vestibule)

Yes. Most key (what exactly btw.?) issues in politics boil down to a dichotomy (yes or no) and labeling is important to make "the world (society, knowledge, etc.)" understandable. That is why we have parties in the end. Because they accelerate the process as it would be impossible to know everything. This is good.
Key issues? Principles regarding the structure of society. Like the distribution of ressources, how and why. Like who should and eventually who should not have political influence, and why.Such as socialism vs capitalism.Dictatorship vs democracy. Strong democracy vs weak democracy. Cooperation vs competiotion. And of course how you either should preserve the current societal structure or change it.
Social and cultural issues are of less importance in this respect.
One example. I regard myself as a socialist and an atheist. In politics, I think the first is more important. I feel that I politically have more in common with a socialist Christian than a non-socialist atheist, even if I might work together wiht the last mentioned in some ad-hoc action.
And yes, there is a need for groups like political parties to represent our interests.

But just two options is too simple. You can have completely different reasons to oppose something. Because the bill goes to far or because it doesn't go far enough. Or you want something different, because of morality, ecology, education, etc. ...
See above. Your political affiliation should be determined by your position on basic issues. Of course the political spectre is wider than two rather similar position. But in principle you will belong somewhere, whatever unexiciting that may sound.

Simplification is good, Oversimplification not.


Besides, as I pointed out, there is the danger of labeling yourself as B because it suits you and your environment. (but you don't really care about politics or you just need to make a career).[/QUOTE]
I don't think it is oversimplification.
Your last sentence I have difficulties in understanding properly.
My apologies for that.

Since you appear to have some interest, if not skill, in coining such phrases, what would you call the tendency to accuse people whom one disagrees with if having psychological disorders of dubious validity?
Since you appear to have some interest, if not skill to use uppity terms in Latin even, what will you call that tendency to accuse people whom you disagree with of using logical fallacies of dubious validity ?
And since you have that interest, feel free to avail yourself of it here as well instead of trying to make me a accomplice in derailing the thread.
 
This has been done 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times, and the answer is most CFCOTers are leftist.
 
This has been done 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times, and the answer is most CFCOTers are leftist.
Well, they consider themselves "leftist", at any rate. Ekaterina II could consider herself an "enlightened despot", but if she brutally crushes the Pugachev revolt, invades the Ottoman Empire and the Khanate of the Crimean Tatars, suppresses her opponents in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and then invades said commonwealth and orders massacres to crush resistance...is she an enlightened despot? Really?
 
Key issues? Principles regarding the structure of society. Like the distribution of ressources, how and why. Like who should and eventually who should not have political influence, and why.Such as socialism vs capitalism.Dictatorship vs democracy. Strong democracy vs weak democracy. Cooperation vs competiotion. And of course how you either should preserve the current societal structure or change it.
Social and cultural issues are of less importance in this respect.
One example. I regard myself as a socialist and an atheist. In politics, I think the first is more important. I feel that I politically have more in common with a socialist Christian than a non-socialist atheist, even if I might work together wiht the last mentioned in some ad-hoc action.
And yes, there is a need for groups like political parties to represent our interests.


See above. Your political affiliation should be determined by your position on basic issues. Of course the political spectre is wider than two rather similar position. But in principle you will belong somewhere, whatever unexiciting that may sound.

There needs to be a new Construction Law (How shall buildings be planned and built?). Should the law lay more weigth on ecological (the buildings and the building must be 'green' in order to save our earth), social (every worker needs to have a decent wage, health insurance, etc. in order to have a fair society), 'liberal in the economic sense' (the buildings need to be cheap and being able to be built fast in order to foster economic growth), 'statist' (the state shall have a say in it in order that the building results in a nicely looking city), protectionist (the buildings shall be built by inland workers in order to foster national welfare) issues.

I have only outlined a few of the options... But as you see, you could have here a Green, a social-democratic, a liberal/radical (economic), a national and a christian-democratic party. (the last two overlapping probably a bit on this particular example)...
Of course you can put these two into "left-right", but actually the protectionist side clearly is in opposition to the "liberal/radical" side. The two ideas are contradictionary. But both would be considered "bourgeois" ('bürgerlich' in German, don't know the english word, just the right side of the political spectrum)?

I don't think it is oversimplification.
Your last sentence I have difficulties in understanding properly.
My apologies for that.

I was just saying that politics is so much more than personal opinion. If you force people to identify either as liberal or conservative, you have many people chosing for other reasons like the career. And you push those in the middle on one of the two sides... (the whole point was not really that on topic and well thought out, I'm sorry ;-))
 
:lol: American liberals are in no position to use the term "reactionary."

As I fall outside the realm of this silly dichotomy, I'm definitely a "how cares?" guy.
1. Go tell it to the guy who does then.
2. Why are so many liberals in denial?

I see you are obviously referring to me while trying to use general terms.

I try to only use that word in cases where I think it is clearly accurate, such as describing your own political views. Do you deny it?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reactionary

And yes, once again I am a 'centrist' who actually leans a bit to the right, at least according to the political compass:

Economic Left/Right: 1.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13

Let's see your own numbers.

And getting back to the topic at hand, where are centrists supposed to vote? How cares?
1. I'm glad you feel that way. Ask around, even your allies laugh at how you toss that term around.
2. Do I deny I am a reactionary as defined by your link..... no, at least fiscally I am. But if a guy like me is running the show wouldn't that make you "reactionary" to me? :lol:
3. You're a centrist?!?! :lol::lol::lol: again :lol::lol::lol: Why are so many liberals in denial?
4. I don't need to take some dumbass political compass test to know where I stand, thank you very much. On top of that, I'm at least honest enough with myself to realize I lean heavily to the right. So I'm at least more grounded in reality than you! :lol:

This has been done 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times, and the answer is most CFCOTers are leftist.
I agree with you, but why do you think so many leftists deny that they are?
 
Social Democrat
 
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