Cops beat innocent man to death in front of family

[Glassfan]

The actual circumstances that occurred are therefor unknown. One way or another, it would be more compelling if it were more complete.

 

[JollyRoger]

It is known that 5 law enforcement types killed a man when they could have apparently taken him into custody alive. Beating him to death would likely not be the method of choice if they felt they were under threat of being killed.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What I think is particularly telling is that they apparently didn't even check on his condition, despite the incessant pleas of his wife to do so. They left him seemingly unconscious and propped up while still handcuffed instead.

 

[Labtec600]

Yayyyyy, this is one of those fun threads where you only see one side of the story and a 2 minute video of the aftermath and we jump to conclusions. So much fun.

What I think is particularly telling is that they apparently didn't even check on his condition, despite the incessant pleas of his wife to do so. They left him seemingly unconscious and propped up while still handcuffed instead.

There is an ambulance right in the photo.

 

[Glassfan]

It is known that 5 law enforcement types killed a man when they could have apparently taken him into custody alive. Beating him to death would likely not be the method of choice if they felt they were under threat of being killed.

Apparently, yes. But what really happened?

What I think is particularly telling is that they apparently didn't even check on his condition, despite the incessant pleas of his wife to do so. They left him seemingly unconscious and propped up while still handcuffed instead.

Apparently, the vid goes on to show us an ambulance, apparently called by the police.

 

[Kyriakos]

Is that pic of the same man who was beaten by the 5 policemen? Cause it is worth noting that his family claims his face was "deformed" by the knees of those thugs hitting him.

So if that is a pic of him, well, it looks rather horrible. The cops look like utter crazies there :/

I mean what kind of freak would deform a man, leave him unconcious, and then chain him (so as to avoid retaliation? really?).

 

[Formaldehyde]

There is an ambulance right in the photo.

Good thing or he would have likely been dead even before he got to the hospital.

Is that pic of the same man who was beaten by the 5 policemen? Cause it is worth noting that his family claims his face was "deformed" by the knees of those thugs hitting him.

You can make out his face in that photo?

 

[Kyriakos]

Good thing or he would have likely been dead even before he got to the hospital.

You can make out his face in that photo?

No i can't, obviously, but the family (wife and daughter) said his face was deformed as a resulf of the police violence against him. So i was commenting on having his tied down and pretty messed up while cheerfuly waiting and looking around like the heroes they are

(btw is that blackened area covering his head an graphical edit, or some cloth to hide the head?).

 

[cav scout]

I have to give the cops credit for getting much smarter in this cell phone video age. When they realized the wife was filming they didn't immediately confiscate the phone from her as this would have raised red flags (they confiscated it later).

Instead they told her to step back and then started acting. The guy's body was obviously completely limp and they realized they were in trouble. So they start saying stuff like "calm down sir" (aka "stop resisting") even though he is clearly dead weight. It's really important to say this dog-whistle phraseology (with just the right patronizing tone/inflection) if you are being filmed. You will then get a free pass from authoritarian law-and-order types and the cowardly masses who desperately want to believe that police are there to protect them.

 

[Formaldehyde]

There is a gruesome photo of his face you can find with Google image, along with other similar shots as the above while he is being propped up by the cops before the ambulance arrives. Not all of them have that shadow, but you can't make out any details.

 

[Goodfella]

If criminals in OK can get the electric chair, these police officers should too.

 

[Camikaze]

In any of these sorts of cases, there's a "who's watching the watchers" element. Without video it's going to be hard to determine what happened. But who is going to be making that determination? Independent prosecutors conventionally rely on the evidence-collecting resources of police, but there's an unavoidable conflict of interest if that's done in this case. I dunno what procedures are in place wherever this is, but I doubt they're entirely independent or satisfactory.

One thing seems clear - the death would not have occurred if the police had not intervened in the situation. Whether or not they are culpable for the death, from a business perspective it would seem better for the police to only engage with individuals more judiciously, so as to reduce the risk of such social and economic cost as is incurred here. Unfortunately the necessarily adversarial response to the death will largely preclude an examination of what would be best practice.

 

[mrt144]

Screw Illinois for having a law forbidding taping police and honestly, responders are the lowest form of police and are largely useless except in getting people killed one way or another. Seen too many goddamn ridiculous incidents to think otherwise.

And the worst part is this is merely an awareness issue. Like, this has been always going on but we're its just more visible now. How insane is that?

 

[Borachio]

Shouldn't the police wear personal cameras at all times, for their own benefit?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/09/metropolitan-police-cameras-mark-duggan

These tiny oblong cameras, the size of a stubby cigar, grabbed the attention of police forces around the world when a 2012 trial in Rialto near Los Angeles suggested that the use of force by officers fell by 60% and complaints against them dropped 88% when they were present."When you know you're being watched you behave a little better. That's just human nature," said the Rialto police chief. "As an officer you act a bit more professional, follow the rules a bit better."

... and as a result the public trust you more?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Only if there are independent commissions set up to review the videos on a regular basis. But yes, eventually it will occur.

 

[Camikaze]

Police wearing cameras at all times is not necessarily a wholly positive thing. It's like portable CCTV (so there's privacy concerns), and can be used to catch suspects incriminating themselves when placed under the stress of an initial police confrontation, without having yet had access to legal representation. It's like with video-taping of formal interviews. It's definitely a positive, but it's useful to keep in mind some of the downsides, such as the police's ability to contrast the polite and kempt defendant with the aggressive and dishevelled interviewee, in front of a jury.

I suppose these are issues that can be mitigated, though, by the police having to inform an individual that they are being filmed, that anything they say can be used against them, and that they have a right to legal representation before answering any questions, for instance.

 

[Borachio]

Yes, I can see there's a downside. But the positives are just so positive.

The degree to which the police become automatically much more accountable for their actions is invaluable, I think.

Sure there's issues of privacy, but public spaces are becoming more and more public through the use of CCTV and hand-held cameras anyway.

 

[aelf]

Unfortunately, the video begins after the event that killed Luis. We simply don't know what actually happened - just different accounts from the two sides. The video version we see was released by the families' attorney, and so presumably has been edited to show one side. And apparently it was three cops and two game wardens.

This happened in a public place however, and hopefully other, more complete videos will emerge in days to come.

Yayyyyy, this is one of those fun threads where you only see one side of the story and a 2 minute video of the aftermath and we jump to conclusions. So much fun.

Thank goodness. I was beginning to be worried that this thread would consist of universal condemnation of this unnecessary brutality.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The degree to which the police become automatically much more accountable for their actions is invaluable, I think.

That is only if the videos are actually used to hold them more accountable, which still doesn't happen with the video from their patrol cars. Instead, they seem to disappear a lot or are accidentally erased when they are not supportive of the police in particular instances.

 

[Camikaze]

In some cases it could be useful to treat it like video of formal interviews; evidence is inadmissible unless it's recorded. That wouldn't help in cases in which the police don't want there to be evidence of their wrongdoing, but it would help in cases in which the police don't want a video surfacing which contradicts the evidence upon which they've arrested someone, and would create a system in which video recording is more highly regulated.