Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[Nyayr]

I noticed you can't trade foods anymore. Until refrigeration? honestly the preparing and salting on the ships themselves of fish or such for example for trade been done by the dutch since the 1400's. However far before that the trade of salted/dryed foods is been done since a long time and it doesn't require freezing a product. Also makes nation with good food supplies (fish, cow, pig) but less luxury unable to properly trade versus those with a decent luxury count (wine, incense, dye). Making them lack behind, not able to get enough happiness but too much health...

Maybe it requires a proper thing of able to prepare and salt foods, cause now playing the Netherlands, you have literally nothing to trade until you develop like south Africa or Indonesia, where you get gems, gold, spices etc. The Carribean are pretty meagre themselves.

 

[Nyayr]

AI is so unstable, so unstable in current 975 svn, literally I was playing most part of the game with independents and Kongo.
Especially England and Vikings always collapse. Few times per game, then declare independence for a short period of time, and then again collapse very soon.

Think this might be affected by the inability to trade foods? Cause that means they can't support a large city, get loads of unhappiness etc... I see a lot of resources from other nations just lying there...

Sorry I thought making a second time post added to the one I made previously, as some forums did.

 

[Leoreth]

In your latest SVN update, you wrote: "- AI tech advantage before human spawn is limited to 25% of the overall number of turns in the game, to avoid excessive effects for late spawns."

Can you explain what this means?

The AI receives a tech bonus before the player spawns. This obviously means that the AI benefits from this effect more if the player spawns late. This can lead to a runaway effect with very advanced civs on player spawn for late civs, especially for AI civs that spawn early.

So I limited the number of turns the effect can apply for. 25% of the overall number of turns makes this scale with game length, based on scenario. If an AI civ is alive for more than that number of turns, it applies only for that number of turns before the human player spawns.

 

[youtien]

The AI receives a tech bonus before the player spawns. This obviously means that the AI benefits from this effect more if the player spawns late. This can lead to a runaway effect with very advanced civs on player spawn for late civs, especially for AI civs that spawn early.

So I limited the number of turns the effect can apply for. 25% of the overall number of turns makes this scale with game length, based on scenario. If an AI civ is alive for more than that number of turns, it applies only for that number of turns before the human player spawns.

Yeah. In previous version, I started a 3000 BC epic paragon Spanish game, and stole astronomy from Persian in Milan in 1060. And in 1360 my 4th great spy is on the way, I have scientific method, liberalism, military tradition, constitution, all from them. They are researching nationalism, My tech rate is still 0%.

Thanks to their tech, I sweeped Europe by conquistador and bombards.

 

[JustAnotherNerd]

Mod gets boring and irrational, in svn 976 in my 600AD Russia game, Spain circumnavigates globe already in 1250 and conquers Aztecs/incas by 1280.
China completely annihilates Mongols right away, has rifling in early 1500s, able to move through jungles somehow, takes Azimabad and vassalize Mughals, control colossal territory of forein cores and foreign areas, unstable but does not collapse.
Meanwhile England settling only historical areas and collapse.
Vikings never settle any cities except their starting 3 cities.
And Poland always settle Odessa... Why they do it every single time, damn.
For the game it's just 1-population city completely suffocated by culture of Kiev. Meant to be razed, with penalty for razing ofcource...
In fact it was just literally empty land after Italians abandoned northern Black Sea, when Turks sieged Constantinople. Odessa was established by decree of Ekatherine II only in 18th century.
Why it should be settled in 12th century then and by Poland?

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Sooooo much hatred You can always choose not to play the game.

Mod gets boring and irrational, in svn 976 in my 600AD Russia game, Spain circumnavigates globe already in 1250 and conquers Aztecs/incas by 1280.
China completely annihilates Mongols right away, has rifling in early 1500s, able to move through jungles somehow, takes Azimabad and vassalize Mughals, control colossal territory of forein cores and foreign areas, unstable but does not collapse.
Meanwhile England settling only historical areas and collapse.
Vikings never settle any cities except their starting 3 cities.
And Poland always settle Odessa... Why they do it every single time, damn.
For the game it's just 1-population city completely suffocated by culture of Kiev. Meant to be razed, with penalty for razing ofcource...
In fact it was just literally empty land after Italians abandoned northern Black Sea, when Turks sieged Constantinople. Odessa was established by decree of Ekatherine II only in 18th century.
Why it should be settled in 12th century then and by Poland?

 

[citis]

Mod gets boring and irrational, in svn 976 in my 600AD Russia game, Spain circumnavigates globe already in 1250 and conquers Aztecs/incas by 1280.
China completely annihilates Mongols right away, has rifling in early 1500s, able to move through jungles somehow, takes Azimabad and vassalize Mughals, control colossal territory of forein cores and foreign areas, unstable but does not collapse.
Meanwhile England settling only historical areas and collapse.
Vikings never settle any cities except their starting 3 cities.
And Poland always settle Odessa... Why they do it every single time, damn.
For the game it's just 1-population city completely suffocated by culture of Kiev. Meant to be razed, with penalty for razing ofcource...
In fact it was just literally empty land after Italians abandoned northern Black Sea, when Turks sieged Constantinople. Odessa was established by decree of Ekatherine II only in 18th century.
Why it should be settled in 12th century then and by Poland?

Play in Regent. Odessa is founded because Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth connected black baltic seas I suppose.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

snip

Not all of this is unfounded. It feels like the AI research things way too fast before the early Industrial Age (Steam Power, Biology, etc) when all of the techs suddenly become absurdly expensive (take ~40 turns on Monarch when I'm the tech leader) and nobody can research them, causing the prices to never go down.

 

[Nyayr]

Not all of this is unfounded. It feels like the AI research things way too fast before the early Industrial Age (Steam Power, Biology, etc) when all of the techs suddenly become absurdly expensive (take ~40 turns on Monarch when I'm the tech leader) and nobody can research them, causing the prices to never go down.

They do seem to go fast, appearing as a late civ, like the netherlands you feel like a middle class civilization on technologies, the french, english and others are usually similar or ahead. The prussians seem to do a lot better in 1700, just like the americans 1775, might have to do with that quick research.

Update: I'd have to check with the latest update, where the human player spawn reduce techs to see if it still applies.

This might be a stupid question but if you update to a newer dev version your old saves remain with the old settings yes or no?

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, the tech rates on recent revisions are not representative of overall intended balance and tech spread.

And that's not a stupid question. Updating is usually savegame compatible, although sometimes there are breaking changes. I try to announce them in the commit messages in case I can anticipate it. There haven't been any to my knowledge recently though.

 

[Hojsimpson]

So.. what has changed so far since 1.12?

 

[Leoreth]

I hope I remember everything.
- Canada
- Polynesia
- culture spreads per tile instead of in rings
- graphics paging
- India and SE Asia rework
- Harappa
- Great Statesmen
- SuperSpies module (spy experience and promotions)
- Great Spies from spy experience

For all the details you can read the SVN update log.

 

[2015]

I hope I remember everything.
- Canada
- Polynesia
- culture spreads per tile instead of in rings
- graphics paging
- India and SE Asia rework
- Harappa
- Great Statesmen
- SuperSpies module (spy experience and promotions)
- Great Spies from spy experience

For all the details you can read the SVN update log.

It's like a whole new game. Next update should be 1.2 or even 2.0 not 1.13

 

[Stoklomolvi]

The graphics paging change is causing me a lot of problems for some reason as I am starting to get MAFs when my BTS is running at below 1 GB of memory usage, whereas before the paging system I never had MAFs when running Civ4 ever (including C2C).

Edit: Should've posted this in Bug Reports but I had a lapse of judgement

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, not sure why that is. The code is a direct copy of C2C's, and when I discussed this with their devs they said MAFs were an issue for some players there too.

It works for some people here, if it doesn't for you I recommend you keep it disabled.

 

[ales_]

It's like a whole new game. Next update should be 1.2 or even 2.0 not 1.13

1.2 was already released a long time ago.

 

[youtien]

This is a 3000 BC paragon epic Spanish savefile, see if you can steal astronomy from Persians before 1000!

 

[youtien]

Suspended a 3000 BC paragon/epic English game, Chinese is going to have physics in 1460. Although I stole astronomy in 1100s and founded colonies everywhere, It is hopeless to get my UHV.

Maybe I stayed in epic too long. Will go back to normal speed.

 

[Fresol]

You stayed at Paragon for too long.

 

[JiimBV]

Hey Leoreth, I'm using Windows 8 so I can't SVN update directly to the mod folder, instead I have to update to a desktop folder and then copy paste everything over. Is it necessary to copy over the invisible ".svn" folder, or can I skip this and just copy the visible folders? The .svn folder takes significantly longer than all the rest put together, making it take ~30 minutes to copy every time there's an update. This really isn't a big deal, but it would be nice to know one way or the other.