Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth
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AOS9001
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Not sure how much of a choice of music you'll get, then. Unless someone looks up traditional folk music of the Civ, or something...
jammerculture
Prince
So i've had a really good game as Italy and want to win it. But I am still running the originial 1.64. So I save my game at 1930, and then download and install the new victory.py. Only problem is, all my previous accomplishments have now been erased, all my UHV conditions say not yet.
Did I do something wrong or is it not possible to "patch" a game that is in progress?
Did I do something wrong or is it not possible to "patch" a game that is in progress?
Byzantium builds Notre Dame almost every game. You should remove Engineering from starting techs.
Oh, I have got a worse bug. The can't transfer gold bug. As Turkey. This time I haven't settled Sogut (it's very crappy...) and I rushed for Constantinople without founding any cities. Okay, conquered it in the second turn. Now I see, Germany controls land passage to Greece. So, I wanted to give them 10 gold so that they open borders with me, but i can't!
And maybe some feedback from my Dutch game:
The starting war with the Vikings was annoying, but it's fixed. I set the research to economy. My government was absolute monarchy, as always. After the revolution, I settled Adriaansz Fort and Winburg. A few turs later, France founded Sinnmarie or something, very close to A. Fort. It was building culture all the time, while I culdn't do it, because I didn't have music (BTW, why does Holland haven't got aesthetics, literaure and drama, all civs have them in 1500?). The economy was being researched 60 turns, but then the tech rate was reasonable. I got most commerce from trade routes, with free trade, lighthouses and customs houses in every city! I had defensive pacts with France, Germany, England and Turkey (collapsed later). I founded Palikol in India and was going to found a city in Australia, but then France and Vikings suddenly declared war on me, so I quit the game. Jakarta was quite well defended, at least to me, and the Khmer were vassals of Mongolia, so it was unconquerable to me, not saying about Dutch AI. I think the Dutch are well balanced now, and the game was fun until the DOW...
Oh, after loading previous save from Turkish game I can transfer money!
Oh, I have got a worse bug. The can't transfer gold bug. As Turkey. This time I haven't settled Sogut (it's very crappy...) and I rushed for Constantinople without founding any cities. Okay, conquered it in the second turn. Now I see, Germany controls land passage to Greece. So, I wanted to give them 10 gold so that they open borders with me, but i can't!
And maybe some feedback from my Dutch game:
The starting war with the Vikings was annoying, but it's fixed. I set the research to economy. My government was absolute monarchy, as always. After the revolution, I settled Adriaansz Fort and Winburg. A few turs later, France founded Sinnmarie or something, very close to A. Fort. It was building culture all the time, while I culdn't do it, because I didn't have music (BTW, why does Holland haven't got aesthetics, literaure and drama, all civs have them in 1500?). The economy was being researched 60 turns, but then the tech rate was reasonable. I got most commerce from trade routes, with free trade, lighthouses and customs houses in every city! I had defensive pacts with France, Germany, England and Turkey (collapsed later). I founded Palikol in India and was going to found a city in Australia, but then France and Vikings suddenly declared war on me, so I quit the game. Jakarta was quite well defended, at least to me, and the Khmer were vassals of Mongolia, so it was unconquerable to me, not saying about Dutch AI. I think the Dutch are well balanced now, and the game was fun until the DOW...
Oh, after loading previous save from Turkish game I can transfer money!
Instead of giving Mongols a conqueror's event, how about giving player-controlled Mongols more units and better production bonuses.
Give AI-controlled Mongols a 100% chance of declaring war vs China, an automatic 75% chance of declaring war (of which 50% of time will be total war) upon seeing Russia, Persia, Babylon, and/or Arabia. AI Mongols would get number of units (aka: Keshiks, Horse Archers, Catapults and spearman) spawned in western part of their empire proportional to number of civs they declare war against. AI Mongols declaring total war will more realistically create larger Mongol empires that are more prone to collapse.
Give AI-controlled Mongols a 100% chance of declaring war vs China, an automatic 75% chance of declaring war (of which 50% of time will be total war) upon seeing Russia, Persia, Babylon, and/or Arabia. AI Mongols would get number of units (aka: Keshiks, Horse Archers, Catapults and spearman) spawned in western part of their empire proportional to number of civs they declare war against. AI Mongols declaring total war will more realistically create larger Mongol empires that are more prone to collapse.
That would fit better than anthems, if possible. I'd like to have music that immediately says "Chinese", for example. National anthems don't always have that effect, especially in that they don't use the regional instrumentation.
I have changed nothing that affects how the game saves data, and all my tests were on Power of Beer's save, where I won with the new Victory.py in the end. However, I remember one occurence where I had the same problem - have you already tried to load the save multiple times?
I plan to change Rome anyway (more Eastern targets, i.e. you can conquer more). Forgot to mention that on the first page. Didn't think about Persia yet, it's the settling of India that might be problematic, right?
I was dead sure they'd start with Machinery and no Engineering, but it was the other way around. I switched them back again.
Okay, so the bug also affects games that don't involve Italy directly, thanks.
Cool that Netherlands make their gold via trading like in history. For aestethics, literature and drama, I figured it may be easy to trade for them, but maybe I'll grant them too. The only thing that worries me is the slow research at the beginning of the game ...
Why did you quit after the DoW? Didn't you have the time to properly defend Amsterdam?
And on the Khmer: I think they survive far too often (that is, always) now. They can even take over southern China and become a major power without problems. It would be better if they'd collapse early and then return as Siam some time later.
Well, doesn't what you describe constitute a conqueror event of some form?
I quit because I was completely unprepared. I had 1 musketman, 2 pikemen and 1 longbowman in Amsterdam, while the French entered my territory with lots of riflemen and cannons. The next turn I'd be destroyed.
The game was marathon, so 60 turns is like 20 in normal speed
But it still seems a little too slow. The next technologies were about 20 turns.
The game was marathon, so 60 turns is like 20 in normal speed
But it still seems a little too slow. The next technologies were about 20 turns.I think there needs to be a way to circumvent the delay they get from growing Amsterdam and building infrastructure there. So I'm pondering if a preplaced Amsterdam that flips to them might be the better solution ...
Yes, but only for the AI. I think having a % chance for each of the following categories
-declaring war against civ in historically Mongol controlled area
-declaring total war instead of war
-if declared war, getting a smaller sized army spawned in Mongol controlled areas near that civ
-if declared war, getting a larger sized army spawned in Mongol controlled areas near that civ
means that Mongols won't declare war against Arabia and conqueror just a few Arabian cities in central Asia and Iran every single game. I guess I just want to see a bit more variety in Mongolia's behavior that's all.
Human players are in general much better at fighting and hence should not get an equal troops benefit. Having only slightly higher production benefits, lowering the cost of units and slightly increasing initial troop numbers for human players gives them more flexibility as to what they want to do with their army. Conqueror's events seem to make the game more deterministic. I think certain cities will fall to Mongols time after time.
Mongols spawning with 2 or 3 keshiks on the west part of their empire would probably solve the problem of human and AI player arriving in the middle east too late for historical accuracy. Even 1 might be enough since the UP will give them 1 keshik per city conquered.
I played a 600AD start as Arabia playing historically then switched to Italy. Rome had 13 whipping unhappiness, can you please have Italy start with Drama? I eked out a victory very painfully in the end.
My victory was aided by me as Arabia invading Spain collapsing them and declaring war on France which caused them to attack me taking over Spain collapsing them and the Germans invaded France and Spain collapsing them, then Russia invaded Germany...
My victory was aided by me as Arabia invading Spain collapsing them and declaring war on France which caused them to attack me taking over Spain collapsing them and the Germans invaded France and Spain collapsing them, then Russia invaded Germany...
Sandmonster1989
Knights Templar
Yes, but the keshiks are only awarded if you conquer a "big" city (6 or 7 and up, if i'm not mistaken).
And I sent you a message, Leoreth, but I didn't know if you recieved it so I'll ask here and see if anybody else has had the same/similar situations. I was trying to achieve the UHV for the Khmer to get 14000 culture in all my cities by 1450 ce. But I couldn't quite get it. I tried many different strategies, even conquering through Persia (I couldn't quite get any cities in S. China). But the most I could get was 10,000 culture. I headed straight for Music so I could build culture then to Calendar (which I traded for most of the parts for easily with China and Arabia). I founded Phnom as my capital and used my other settlers to found Hanoi and one city in India (there was a source of Ivory, Sugar, Fish, stuff like that). I captured Pitkapuram (?), Pagan, Delhi, Samarkand, and Sirajis. Pagan didn't grow above size 3 until I researched Calendar, Hanoi to size like 6 before, and Phnom didn't grow above 7... My cities in INDIA became rather large, even after I whipped many of the buildings. But the keys to victory with the Khmer in the old RFC (if I remember right) were in wonders like the Sistine Chapel that are no longer available... Oh and I want to note that I always play on Monarch difficulty and on the Regular speed.
I probably should've taken a screen shot, huh?
I'm also wondering who's achieved the UHV's for India and what religions they founded, when and how. I was thinking that it'd be more historcal and a little bit easier to get the Oracle if India didn't have Mining as an initial tech but either Agriculture or Polytheism (the latter is probably too valuable compared to the first).
I also want to say that its totally amazing the way you collapsed so many empires early. I'm not "warlike" enough to achieve the Arabs UHV to control Spain...
And I sent you a message, Leoreth, but I didn't know if you recieved it so I'll ask here and see if anybody else has had the same/similar situations. I was trying to achieve the UHV for the Khmer to get 14000 culture in all my cities by 1450 ce. But I couldn't quite get it. I tried many different strategies, even conquering through Persia (I couldn't quite get any cities in S. China). But the most I could get was 10,000 culture. I headed straight for Music so I could build culture then to Calendar (which I traded for most of the parts for easily with China and Arabia). I founded Phnom as my capital and used my other settlers to found Hanoi and one city in India (there was a source of Ivory, Sugar, Fish, stuff like that). I captured Pitkapuram (?), Pagan, Delhi, Samarkand, and Sirajis. Pagan didn't grow above size 3 until I researched Calendar, Hanoi to size like 6 before, and Phnom didn't grow above 7... My cities in INDIA became rather large, even after I whipped many of the buildings. But the keys to victory with the Khmer in the old RFC (if I remember right) were in wonders like the Sistine Chapel that are no longer available... Oh and I want to note that I always play on Monarch difficulty and on the Regular speed.
I probably should've taken a screen shot, huh?
I'm also wondering who's achieved the UHV's for India and what religions they founded, when and how. I was thinking that it'd be more historcal and a little bit easier to get the Oracle if India didn't have Mining as an initial tech but either Agriculture or Polytheism (the latter is probably too valuable compared to the first).
I also want to say that its totally amazing the way you collapsed so many empires early. I'm not "warlike" enough to achieve the Arabs UHV to control Spain...
Well, let's see how it turns out
Sure thing
Also, is this conqueror's event only geared towards Arabia? Or does it have a chance to pop up against Russia or Persia etc...?Yes, on paper this looks amazing. In general, I think anything that hides unhistorical game rules (such as flipping squatter armies) helps prevent the AI and human-players who are negligent about looking at the Atlas for dates and locations of spawns, from losing unnecessary cities and armies. The very first game I played of RFC I thought it was incredibly stupid because as France I founded Amsterdam, built it up as an incredibly amazing city, then immediately lost it by a flip.
If the adding new civs without taking old civ slots idea works, then I believe it would be possible to add a lot more independent civs for a lot more purposes
-Placeholder independents to prevent stupid human player (like me) founding cities and human or AI players having units walk by the flip area when the flip occurs. They would have modifies that make their production really weak, have a very passive AI, and have a couple very strong defensive units (aka: Etruria with cities on Rome and Milan; Median Empire with city on Persepolis; pre-Netherlands with Amsterdam; pre-Portugal with Lisbon; Teotihuacan with city on Mexico City). The moment their respective successor civs would then most likely flip placeholder independent civ cities and units rather than player civ cities and units.
-Hostile independents that represent hostile nations that automatically declare war against their neighbors every 15 turns or so. Most of their cities would be automatically razed upon being conquered. They would mostly exist as easy challenges to overcome for a civ to its UHV or for being successful in general (eg: Scots with Edinburgh; Moors with Grenada; Numidia with Cirte; lots of independent states all over China; Tlaxcala in Mexico; Zulu in South Africa etc...). To help out stupid AIs, if England is AI-controlled for instance, then Scotland will collapse/be made to be very easy to destroy all of a sudden by a certain year.
-Peaceful independents that represent a lot of peaceful modern day states that emerged independent from a lot of colonial powers (eg: Canada, Australia, South Africa, Korea etc...). A large part of their existence is also just to make the playable part of the map smaller so US doesn't get Canada for instance. They will sign open borders after a certain number of years of peace and/or if you have some civic they like. Declaring war against these civs would cause other civs to all dislike you a bit. Many of these civs will arise when a colonizing power liberates a certain colony.
Italy is already advanced enough, and you sure can trade for it somewhere.
On the Khmer: I've achieved the UHV in RFC without Sistine Chapel, but switched to Caste System early enough and ran artists like crazy (spawning two GAs is enough combined with your raw culture). That obviously isn't possible in DoC anymore. I never tried it without it, but it really looks difficult. Maybe they need a new Buddhist wonder that helps them out? Borobudur seems to be presenting itself here
On India: I tried their religious goal once and it was easily possible to found Zoroastrianism and bulb Theology for Catholicism. I didn't continue from there on, but it shouldn't be very hard to beeline to Protestantism then.
On your message: I didn't get it. Did you send it on this board or per mail? I received neither, but the latter could at least be explained by a poor spam filter.
Sandmonster1989
Knights Templar
Yes, another wonder would make itself very useful!! Having only 2 artists per city just didn't get the job done 
And i've completed the Khmer's UHVs on regualr RFC... its always more fun with the Sistine Chapel, though
And I think you should give India a try again, just for fun. I mean, I could found Zoro but I've been beat to Theology on several occasions....
And i've completed the Khmer's UHVs on regualr RFC... its always more fun with the Sistine Chapel, though And I think you should give India a try again, just for fun. I mean, I could found Zoro but I've been beat to Theology on several occasions....
I think they should get invasions for all their historical conquests, so Arabia, Persia and Russia are definitely in, maybe even India.Sure thing
Yes, on paper this looks amazing. In general, I think anything that hides unhistorical game rules (such as flipping squatter armies) helps prevent the AI and human-players who are negligent about looking at the Atlas for dates and locations of spawns, from losing unnecessary cities and armies. The very first game I played of RFC I thought it was incredibly stupid because as France I founded Amsterdam, built it up as an incredibly amazing city, then immediately lost it by a flip.
If the adding new civs without taking old civ slots idea works, then I believe it would be possible to add a lot more independent civs for a lot more purposes
-Placeholder independents
-Hostile independents
-Peaceful independents
On the new independents: I don't want to fill the whole world with cities, I guess that results in too much determinism. And at least your post-colonial independents suggestions might even make it into the game in the form of proper civs for the major former colonies.
If I only had the time ... things didn't get better when my WoW guild decided to "draft" me again.Yes, another wonder would make itself very useful!! Having only 2 artists per city just didn't get the job done
And I think you should give India a try again, just for fun. I mean, I could found Zoro but I've been beat to Theology on several occasions....
And you certainly want to see Byzantium in this modmod, don't you?
AOS9001
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And you certainly want to see Byzantium in this modmod, don't you?
Who doesn't?
jammerculture
Prince
Wow that's a lot of unhappiness. What were they building?
What you describe is more or less how I've been able to have success with Italy, although I have been using diplomacy. The key is to keep everybody worried about everybody else and not looking at me. War is to be avoided, there is enough production in "the boot" to defend territory but not to attack. Use merchants to build gold so that your defense force can be constantly upgraded. Take territory only when it goes independent, or my favorite strategy, use the congresses. If you can stay on everybody's good side you can easily coast to a victory.
Italy is one of my favorite civs to play now, by far. I have had so much fun with it, generated some huge World War's, in which the DOW's take 2 minutes!!! Leoreth, I'm not really sure about the method you are using to distribute your incremental updates. I fear that I might have wrecked one of my games trying to implement it without understanding it. Can you please explain to me the easiest way for me to get a version of this mod on my computer that will allow me to actually win one of these games, cuz it's kinda crappy just playing to a virtual win at 1930.
Yikes!!
Not sure if this is something you need to be aware of or not. I downloaded the victory.py from your SVN and copied it to my bts/mods/assets/python folder after renaming the original to victory.bak. When I attempted to start a game as Germany however, I was defeated on turn 0. I have since returned everything back to normal on my system and things are fine. Not sure if it was my ignorance that caused the problem or if there is something wrong but I thought I'd let you know.
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