Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Leoreth]

Which would be an international project. What I meant is that it is far more than individuals and would have to be done on a state level. I'd suggest a cost of 100 and 50 worker turns to reflect the cost. Your idea would have an estimated cost of 100000 per tile

Of course, I was only jokingly referring to the much-used "with enough time and money" argument. I still think that your proposal puts too much detail into a too minor aspect of the game. Some things are better abstracted.

For your future plans, how do you plan on relating Canada to England in modern times? Do you want, in modern times, nations such as Canada to be, its own independent civ, a vassal civ of England, or to be part of England?

Sorry that I can't comment on everything you posted, but it's quite late over here already, so I keep my response more general.

To answer your question: take a look at the "future feature" list in the first post. Now that we have a reliable guide how to add new civilizations, I think I will add the most important post-colonial civilizations as non-playable civs without UP, UB and UU. Their spawn will be conditional and depending on their owner's stability.

And I agree with your remark that the general idea of what you describe is already included with the Commonwealth civic, only with less complicated rules behind it.

How do you play as Italy? I have the most recent modmod, and Italy never spawns, not to mention that it is not a choice of it from the main menu. Same for Byzantium, but I may be misinformed.

Due to limitations of the engine, respawning civs like Italy can't be selected from the main menu, you have to play until they spawn to take them over. Italy only spawns when Rome is dead, however, so if you want a guaranteed Italy game start the Inca in the 600 AD scenario and wait a few turns.

Byzantium is currently not in the game (aside from the minor civ, obviously), but I'm making fast progress in including it for the next version. Thanks to Jarkov's guide, Byzantium will be a proper civ in every aspect (including main menu start etc.). Maybe Italy will get the same treatment in the future.

From playing much as Spain, I believe that the biology requirement to remove jungles is too much. Not because the concept is bad per se but because it prevents many places from being settled in reasonable dates.
[...]
Maybe it is not even necessary to allow the player to remove jungles with astronomy, the restriction on founding cities on jungles could simply be lifted when astronomy is discovered. I hope you take this jungle suggestion into account Leoreth, as currently there are many places that get settled too late or not at all, which is simply not true historically.

Your latter suggestion sounds very good (allow to found cities on jungle after Astronomy). I don't want to allow the complete removement that early, because areas like Indochina, India and especially the Amazonas basin would become insanely powerful way too early.

I see if I can make that change.

Yes, good point. But the only thing I don't like about that is that my colonial cities (which are spaced far apart) end up being some of my best cities where I can spam out soldiers that make me a great military power. I don't see Australia doing that for the United Kingdom in real life. Plus this allows the probability for France, Spain, or other colonial powers to keep up with research in the 20th century as well.

If a civic can do what a UP does, that also frees up England's UP for something else more uniquely English.

I just want too add that the current UP is something uniquely English. The effect might not be exciting or special, but the fluff behind it is definitely.

 

[SanePerson]

dcode, most of your ideas for dynamic terrain/resources don't make sense. Although removing resources from Iberia, France, Germany, and the early civs seems like a good idea at first, you have to consider that all of Europe is usually colonized to some degree by Rome and that most of the early civs are absorbed into Arabia or Turkey. Most of the core areas are used by other civs prior to their native civs' birth. Removing resources from Scandinavia doesn't make sense because no one in will settle there anyway. Resources should not be removed from NA because then the human Aztec player is crippled.

 

[kairob]

What he said

 

[Sandmonster1989]

And I'm pretty sure there is Technology in the world to build a bridge between Japan-Hawaii-California as well (even though the Pacific is a much rougher ocean than the atlantic). But there's no real desire. Its like in America... why don't we have Bullet Trains? We could use them a lot more than a smaller country like Japan does... its about who has all the wealth and what do they want to spend it on?

 

[AOS9001]

Byzantium is currently not in the game (aside from the minor civ, obviously), but I'm making fast progress in including it for the next version. Thanks to Jarkov's guide, Byzantium will be a proper civ in every aspect (including main menu start etc.). Maybe Italy will get the same treatment in the future.


Your latter suggestion sounds very good (allow to found cities on jungle after Astronomy).

Yes! Byzantium is on it's way, and hopefully Prussia too... As for the jungle tile thing, that sound great as well. You could finally build Panama City and Manila as Spain!

 

[dcode147]

dcode, most of your ideas for dynamic terrain/resources don't make sense. Although removing resources from Iberia, France, Germany, and the early civs seems like a good idea at first, you have to consider that all of Europe is usually colonized to some degree by Rome and that most of the early civs are absorbed into Arabia or Turkey. Most of the core areas are used by other civs prior to their native civs' birth. Removing resources from Scandinavia doesn't make sense because no one in will settle there anyway. Resources should not be removed from NA because then the human Aztec player is crippled.

I apologize my ideas didn't make sense. I do kind of see what you mean. I guess it's just annoying sometimes to see locations that are wonderful places for cities, but as an experienced human player who's played the mod before, you know it wouldn't be a good place to found a city because you know before hand that a couple hundred years later, another civ will spawn there. (Amsterdam would've fallen into this category too, but Leoreth brought up the idea of an independent city as a placeholder). It's also true that civs like Rome do colonize a place like London. But the shear amount of resources next to it (2 cows, 1 horse, 1 stone, 1 wheat, 1 deer) seems like it was placed there for the sake of making England a strong civ when it spawns 1000 years later, and not to make London one of the largest, richest and most powerful cities of the Roman Empire, as is the case often when I play as the Romans. London was the not center of the Roman cattle industry and nor was it known to have bred quick horses. That's why I think, if it is not too much of a hassle, to reduce the number of resources in Europe until 600AD when more civs spawn.

For the Aztecs, yes, as it stands, human players would be as crippled as AI players (who rarely consider settling Denver or Chicago due to being blinded by their settler maps). I'd rather see an adjustment made to the map, their UHV, UP, buffs, and/or UU so that the easiest and most ideal way for Aztecs to win does not require something as historically inaccurate as Aztec culture flooding all the way across plains prior to the arrival of Europeans.


As with everyone else, really looking forward to Byzantium as well!

 

[Llama231]

Italy still does not work, no matter what the situation. It does not even ever appear on 600 starts anyway... Or 3000 with collapsed Rome for that matter.

 

[AOS9001]

Italy still does not work, no matter what the situation. It does not even ever appear on 600 starts anyway... Or 3000 with collapsed Rome for that matter.

Are you absolutely sure you have the latest patch? I get options for switching to Italy and access to it from the main menu...

 

[kairob]

If you play epic or marathon speed it will take more than 3 turns after you load the inca...

 

[Leoreth]

@Llama231:
Can you post a pre 1160 AD savegame of yours? I'd like to see if I can reproduce your problem.

 

[merijn_v1]

I like the mod. But I have some things I would love to if you included them. (I don't know if some of these are already suggested them)

1. Change the current feature of the Ishtar Gate into: Establishes contact with all civs. (And you also don't have to build embassies anymore.) And if a new civ spawns, you automatically get in contact with them.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11839

2. If it doesn't become too much, the Hemiji Castle can be included.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11134

3. If it doesn't become too much, Leonardo's Inventions can be included.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11090

4. I also like a wonder that allows you to build a vassal UU. (like the Topkapi Palace in RFCE) I don't care which wonder could use this feature.

5. In RFCE, we have a better art for La Mezquita. Should I upload it?

6. In RFCE, we have some texts for wonders/leaders of your mod. Should I upload them?

7. In theory, it's possible to build the Statue of Liberty without Liberalism. To prevent this, the Statue should also require Liberalism to be build.

 

[Llama231]

Here is a generic Portugal start on Monarch and 600. (Normal speed.)

 

[Sandmonster1989]

Hey Leoreth... I am wondering if you could modify some parts of the settler maps. I'm tired of the Egyptians settling on the source of Wheat (Buto). They just don't do quite as well on top of it...
Also, the Aztecs keep building on top of a source of Corn... bad for that city as well...
And I think the best City (as the Aztecs) is to found on the bend of the Missouri River (on top of the future sight of horses--I think its Sioux City, Iowa). There are several sources of Corn at that point, but later there are also many sources of Wheat available... and its not like horses really MEAN anything to the Aztecs til after the Europeans start trying to colonize, anyway.

 

[kairob]

Is the anyway to have Civs outside of Europe build cities slightly further apart in general? the Aztecs in particular really screw themselves over...

 

[KMRblue1027]

Is the anyway to have Civs outside of Europe build cities slightly further apart in general? the Aztecs in particular really screw themselves over...

I personally feel that the 2 space rule should be permanently in effect except of capitals (Paris and Amsterdam can't be built.) Germany builds things way too close as well.

 

[jammerculture]

The best idea for modifying jungles imo is to create two terrains, such as coastal jungle and deep jungle. Then allow coastal jungle to be cut earlier. As i have seen you create terrain in the past (capes) i am assuming this would be any easy fix (probably wrong)

 

[civ_king]

Portugal has crappy city spacing in Brazil, 11 cities between Chile and the North Eastern Bulge

 

[Orka]

I personally feel that the 2 space rule should be permanently in effect except of capitals (Paris and Amsterdam can't be built.)

I think a hard rule like this would be too much. RFC has a higher resource density than regular BTS, which actually makes very close cities pretty viable since they each can usually find 2+ food resources in their BFC easily. I remember as China packing three cities in row along the southeast coast because I noticed in previous games that a ton of tiles simply weren't being worked when the cities were spread out. It's an interesting choice between short-term utilization of land vs. long-term city planning (esp. when aiming for shorter UHV victory).

Perhaps instead the AI should be encouraged to spread out more, and avoid settling on resources. I swear I remember seeing somewhere in the SDK that had spread values for each civ or something...

 

[rob85]

Something is wrong with revision 11. When I updated to it, I could wait forever until the autoplay ends. It just didn't end the turns. After I pressed enter or escape, I got the "you have been defeated" screen. I reverted to the previous revision and manually made the changes regarding Byzantine technologies and Turkey start.

 

[dcode147]

I think for the Aztecs, the map and their civ should be changed slightly so that "better gameplay" does not entail expanding into the plains, but rather staying mostly within Mexico, and maybe later, the American Southwest.

The best idea for modifying jungles imo is to create two terrains, such as coastal jungle and deep jungle. Then allow coastal jungle to be cut earlier. As i have seen you create terrain in the past (capes) i am assuming this would be any easy fix (probably wrong)

This sounds like a great idea. This will allow for an interesting distinction between the first wave (coast of Africa, NA, SA) and second wave of imperialism (scramble for Africa, India, South Africa, Australia etc...).

Plus it doesn't allow for cities to be built on dense jungles too early.