Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[AOS9001]

I'll get a save for that bug I mentioned up later tonight. I've been very busy this week, but now it's two days of free time. Kind of.

 

[Cethegus]

I'm more worried about the overall increase in available happiness than commerce. Happiness is an important factor for every civ's growth, so I'll better act conservative here, even if one additional resource doesn't feel like much.

Well yes, that's what I meant. Since the change is so insignificant, it's pretty much the same whether it's there or not. See to it as you see fit.

Also, I don't think there should be more than the Viking, German and Russian city maps you're going to need to update with a new Tampere/Tammerfors entry. But remember to add the gradual rename entry also.

 

[rob85]

Regarding Finland, I propose the folllowing picture.
(Rob's suggestion to grassland some tundra tiles are included, some credit is due there.)

• The inland coast tile is moved 1E to more accurately portray Finland's landscape. The smaller lakes are representated with the additional river to better match these maps and boost the land's commerce. To this end, the river to the south merely represents the east "spike" on the Gulf of Finland but also makes a huge late-game difference by allowing St. Petersburg to work a Levee and denying it from the riverless Novgorod.
• As for the resources, the Copper is moved to the lake's former spot. Now nearly any tile in Finland can work it, and is actually where Tampere, the industrial center of Finland, is located. The Fur to the east serves no other purpose than to increase the global appeal. The best city sites are still the two Vasa's and St. Petersburg to the south.

What do you think?

I like your idea, but I think that Petersburg should get a food resource.
Oh, and I can see that you have changed something in Sweden!

 

[AOS9001]

Well, after several tries, it seems I can't get the bug to happen again. Maybe you have to invade the turn it gets to size 2 or something, I don't know. But what I do know, is that I'm too tired to keep on reloading and hoping for war with Phonecia and a size 1 Carthage.

 

[AdrienIer]

I did try Phoenicia out recently. The problem is that your starting conditions are so bad that if you try to catch up in military techs you don't have enough time to complete your UHV. When Persia took Babylon, I had to build 3 archers (best unit I could build) to defend Sur, and it probably wouldn't have been enough if they had indeed attacked.
There is only one dye resource that is (somehow) a challenge to get : the one in southern Italy, which is also outside your historical area. But why would Rome even want to build a city in S-Italy ? They have far better city sites in the rest of Europe. And after I build Messana, they still build Brindisium 2 tiles away... it's like the crappiest city in the area.
Anyway, I suppose the Phoenician UHV is alright since the 5 cities in Mediterranean is a piece of cake, and you need those cities anyway for the dye UHV.
For the "biggest earth map" UHV, well, next time I'll try harder than exploring all the seas accessible from Sur.

 

[Cethegus]

Oh, and I can see that you have changed something in Sweden!

Just what you'd expect: an extra tile, two fish resources by the coast of Norway and horse in southern Sweden.

 

[Leoreth]

Well yes, that's what I meant. Since the change is so insignificant, it's pretty much the same whether it's there or not. See to it as you see fit.

Also, I don't think there should be more than the Viking, German and Russian city maps you're going to need to update with a new Tampere/Tammerfors entry. But remember to add the gradual rename entry also.

Do Germany and Russia even need a name there? Tammerfors -> Tampere in say, the Industrial Era, would be sufficient, wouldn't it?

Well, after several tries, it seems I can't get the bug to happen again. Maybe you have to invade the turn it gets to size 2 or something, I don't know. But what I do know, is that I'm too tired to keep on reloading and hoping for war with Phonecia and a size 1 Carthage.

That's a pity. Just one question I completely forgot the last time, on which speed did it happen for the first time?

I did try Phoenicia out recently. The problem is that your starting conditions are so bad that if you try to catch up in military techs you don't have enough time to complete your UHV. When Persia took Babylon, I had to build 3 archers (best unit I could build) to defend Sur, and it probably wouldn't have been enough if they had indeed attacked.
There is only one dye resource that is (somehow) a challenge to get : the one in southern Italy, which is also outside your historical area. But why would Rome even want to build a city in S-Italy ? They have far better city sites in the rest of Europe. And after I build Messana, they still build Brindisium 2 tiles away... it's like the crappiest city in the area.
Anyway, I suppose the Phoenician UHV is alright since the 5 cities in Mediterranean is a piece of cake, and you need those cities anyway for the dye UHV.
For the "biggest earth map" UHV, well, next time I'll try harder than exploring all the seas accessible from Sur.

Yeah, the UHV is rather easy currently. The general idea was to move them away from their military focus early on, so you'd seriously have to fear losing Sur. I'd like to introduce some conflict later on with Rome, but it seems they don't want Sicily badly enough to start a war over it or settle there before you can.

Question: would the Phoenician player be able to conquer Rome if he really set his mind on it? If not, what techs do you feel he'd need for it?

 

[AdrienIer]

I don't know... Actually the fact that you don't have access to Iron or copper until you get to Melilla (or whatever the name of that city south of spain is) forbids you to attack Rome's legions.
And the barb pressure in N-Africa right before the Arab spawn is really huge, by the way. It's there to help the Arab start, I suppose, but for Egypt and Phoenicia, getting huge stacks of units on your doorsteps right before you lose your capitol to the arabs is really a huge blow.
It dosen't affect the UHVs, though, since they're long finished by then.

 

[Leoreth]

Well, Egypt and Phoenicia are designed to die at that time, so I don't see a problem here.

You have a point on the metal, though. Maybe a prespawned fort+road on Cyprus won't hurt.

 

[AdrienIer]

Very true. Or a prebuild road under the coast tile ? Because it would be far better if the Phoenicians had access to the copper, and even with a mine the resource cannot be used by Sur.
Actually the +3 of the copper helps a lot.

 

[rob85]

The Sistine Chapel has to be available later. It's a renaissance wonder, while AI builds it in 1300s and I can build it in 1100s! (both on monarch, marathon, 600AD)

 

[Leoreth]

Which tech would you suggest? Guilds, maybe?

I know about the production, but I'm not ready to resort to building rounds in the sea yet ...

 

[rob85]

Guilds should be fine.
About the offer/demand gold problem with Italy. It seems that the bug is only present with some civs. For example, I can't offer gold to Germany and Vikings, while I can offer to France. I'll test all European civs.
I think I know what's the problem. I played as France until I switched to Italy. So, I can trade gold only with the previous civ.

Why is this forum so laggy?

 

[Leoreth]

That's only even more confusing ...

 

[Cethegus]

Simply adding Theology/Divine Right as Sistine Chapel's secondary requirement would work also. Then again that's China-specific.

 

[AOS9001]

That's a pity. Just one question I completely forgot the last time, on which speed did it happen for the first time?

It happened on epic speed.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

I was wondering about city names. Is there any way that the city names in Egypt get an upgrade... Niwt-rst and other names are a bit... weird... later on in the game (like when I play as Japan, India, or China). Maybe when, either, christianity or entrance into the middle ages could change city names?

 

[Leoreth]

Simply adding Theology/Divine Right as Sistine Chapel's secondary requirement would work also. Then again that's China-specific.

Huh? What does China have to do with it?

It happened on epic speed.

I see. Maybe it's some kind of rounding error in food production then ...?

I was wondering about city names. Is there any way that the city names in Egypt get an upgrade... Niwt-rst and other names are a bit... weird... later on in the game (like when I play as Japan, India, or China). Maybe when, either, christianity or entrance into the middle ages could change city names?

The problem is, the Egyptians didn't live to see the Middle Ages or even later, so how should we know how they'd call their cities? Most of the current names are of Arabian origin, and they still get them quite often when they respawn after Arabia controlled their land (commonplace in the 600 AD scenario).

 

[Cethegus]

Huh? What does China have to do with it?

I remember that in the original RFC, China was almost guaranteed to build the Sistine Chapel in 3000 BC and Byzants in the 600 AD starts. I haven't paid so much attention are they still doing it though, so don't take my word for it. Guilds sounds good, especially with later-spawning Dutchland.

The problem is, the Egyptians didn't live to see the Middle Ages or even later, so how should we know how they'd call their cities? Most of the current names are of Arabian origin, and they still get them quite often when they respawn after Arabia controlled their land (commonplace in the 600 AD scenario).

True. And as much as I hate seeing Al-Iskandariiya on respawning Egypt, truth is their modern city names are now as good as they'll ever be.

 

[Leoreth]

I remember that in the original RFC, China was almost guaranteed to build the Sistine Chapel in 3000 BC and Byzants in the 600 AD starts. I haven't paid so much attention are they still doing it though, so don't take my word for it. Guilds sounds good, especially with later-spawning Dutchland.

Well, China's not a problem anymore because the Sistine Chapel now requires Catholicism.

On another note, I'd be very glad if someone with some Python knowledge could tell me what's wrong with my code for Italy's first UHV:

		elif (iPlayer == iRome):
                        if (pRome.isAlive() and pRome.isReborn()):
                                if (self.getGoal(iRome, 0) == -1): #eof error???
                                        if (iTech == con.iBanking):
                                                self.setItalianTechs(0, 1)
                                                for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
                                                        if (iCiv != iRome):
                                                                if (gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iCiv).getTeam()).isHasTech(iTech) == True):
                                                                        self.setItalianTechs(0, 0)
                                        elif (iTech == con.iEducation):
                                                self.setItalianTechs(1, 1)
                                                for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
                                                        if (iCiv != iRome):
                                                                if (gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iCiv).getTeam()).isHasTech(iTech) == True):
                                                                        self.setItalianTechs(1, 0)
                                        elif (iTech == con.iRadio):
                                                self.setItalianTechs(2, 1)
                                                for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
                                                        if (iCiv != iRome):
                                                                if (gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iCiv).getTeam()).isHasTech(iTech) == True):
                                                                        self.setItalianTechs(2, 0)
					elif (iTech == con.iFascism):
                                                self.setItalianTechs(3, 1)
                                                for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
                                                        if (iCiv != iRome):
                                                                if (gc.getTeam(gc.getPlayer(iCiv).getTeam()).isHasTech(iTech) == True):
                                                                        self.setItalianTechs(3, 0)
                                        print ("self.getGreekTechs", self.getGreekTechs(0), self.getGreekTechs(1), self.getGreekTechs(2))
                                        if (self.getItalianTechs(0) == 1 and self.getItalianTechs(1) == 1 and self.getItalianTechs(2) == 1 and self.getItalianTechs(3) == 1):
                                                self.setGoal(iRome, 0, 1)
                                        elif (self.getItalianTechs(0) == 0 or self.getItalianTechs(1) == 0 or self.getItalianTechs(2) == 0 or self.getItalianTechs(3) == 0):
                                                self.setGoal(iRome, 0, 0)

The problem is, whether I complete the condition (verified first on every tech via WB) or someone beats me to one of them, it always stays "not yet". Note that Italy is still referred to as Rome and uses its UHV slots, the game differentiates between the two with the PyPlayer.isReborn() function. The getter/setter methods for stored data all work properly. So where is my mistake?