Decision on Prop 8 pending

[MobBoss]

A bit more on the birth vs behavior front: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

Abstract
In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.

Study done on the possibility of child molestation possibly having a role in the development of homosexuality. That would be behavior and environment after being born there Cutlass. So, if its 100% born, Cutlass...how do you explain the above study and its findings?

@Jeps. Historically I have discussed that to death and dont really have any desire to reguritate it all over again. Lets just say I have my reasons and not all of them are religious. Fair enough?

 

[emzie]

So your're ok with consensual incest between adults. Wow.

Am I okay with it? No. It's icky. But personally finding something icky doesn't mean I favour criminalizing it. I also find gay sex icky. And for that matter, I find eating squid icky.

I would find it really interesting if you had a method to actually show such a thing statisically.

Well you are presenting the strawman, so the burden is on you. You're the one implying that if we don't stand firm now against gay marriage, polygamy will become legal and then siblings will be marrying one another next.

Except that the majority dont want to see it 'redefined' just to please a minor subset of the populace based upon sexual preference.

Either you're deliberately trolling calling homosexuality a preference, or you really are a word I am not allowed to use.

 

[MobBoss]

Well you are presenting the strawman, so the burden is on you. You're the one implying that if we don't stand firm now against gay marriage, polygamy will become legal and then siblings will be marrying one another next.

No, I am merely saying the possibility of those arguments certainly presents itself upon approval of gay marriage. Someday, somewhere, someone will assuredly file a lawsuit on it. Its just the american way.

Either you're deliberately trolling calling homosexuality a preference, or you really are a word I am not allowed to use.

No, I simply believe people can indeed have a sexual preference, and that over time, conditions and situations, that preference can indeed change.

Not sure why that would be so offensive to you. Its certainly not meant to be, its just an opinion.

 

[dwaxe]

Mobby, why don't you show us the evidence that gayness is not inborn.

Jeps' 52-55% heritability is an actual number supported by twin studies. That is a very impressive number pointing to the conclusion that gayness is a fairly heritable trait, especially in light of the fact that only 5-10% of the population is gay.

In other words, more than 5% of the entire population (1 out of 20 people = 1 out of 2 gays) are "born gay". At the very least, they have a strong inherited disposition to being gay.

This means that gayness is a strongly heritable trait. Have you contradictory evidence? Enlighten us.

 

[Mango Elephant]

No, I simply believe people can indeed have a sexual preference, and that over time, conditions and situations, that preference can indeed change.

Not sure why that would be so offensive to you. Its certainly not meant to be, its just an opinion.

Saying it's a preference implys it's a choice, which doesn't sit well with some people. This is probley due to the fact that it's not a choice.

 

[MobBoss]

Saying it's a preference implys it's a choice, which doesn't sit well with some people. This is probley due to the fact that it's not a choice.

And I simply disagree as I see evidence of people making that choice all the time. Its certainly evident in the media...so I think people just dont want to acknowlege that because they simply cant handle it for some odd reason. But its true, a person can indeed go from being 'gayer than gay' to a heterosexual relationship married with kids. Its their choice.

True, not everyone thinks they can do that, or would even want to do it. But some do, and if some do, then its simply factual that it can be a choice that people make.

 

[Mango Elephant]

Blah, blah blah, nothing to see here folks

 

[warpus]

Listen, you guys are arguing because MobBoss and VRWC are using an incorrect definition of homosexuality. To them a homosexual is someone who has gay sex - which is not the correct definition - and which *is* a choice. You can have sex with a tree if you really wanted to.

 

[MobBoss]

Some people can,

Ding. Then we have nothing more to argue about. We have reached resolution.

 

[jeps]

@Jeps. Historically I have discussed that to death and dont really have any desire to reguritate it all over again. Lets just say I have my reasons and not all of them are religious. Fair enough?

Well, I have just looked through every post you made in the past 3 years using the words "gay marriage" (around 300), and have not been able to find a statement of beliefs, only opening statements (that you oppose gay marriage) and then rebuttals against people who try to argue with you.

And to explain why I am asking this, it is because of my belief system. I personally support the right to abortion. I don't know if I support abortion or not, but I know I support the choice. I have yet to impregnate anyone and am not a women. If either of those change, my opinion might. However, I can understand the arguments against abortion, and so despite the fact that I support the right to choose, I understand people who wish to ban it.

For gay marriage, I see it as "if it does not affect me, there is no reason for me to care". As I am perfectly comfortable in my heterosexuality, the only way gay marriage affects me is a few extra boring weddings to go to and a few more presents to buy. As such, I fully support it, as I cannot see a reason to oppose it. I am open to hearing ways that two random people in the same territory of residence would affect another person, as this would make me more tolerating of arguments against gay marriage.

Your call if you want to give a simple explanation of a way or two it affects you, but I would appreciate it if you did.

Jeps' 52-55% heritability is an actual number supported by twin studies. That is a very impressive number pointing to the conclusion that gayness is a fairly heritable trait, especially in light of the fact that only 5-10% of the population is gay.

Ish. Remember, that these are twin studies, which are not the same as separated twin studies. In that case, it would be identical twins who grow up in different families, to see whether they are similar or not despite different environments. This 52-55% is a combination of both nature and nurture, and is a statistic, but does not definitely prove anything. If you can find a stat about separated twins, that would be MUCH more helpful.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, I have just looked through every post you made in the past 3 years using the words "gay marriage" (around 300), and have not been able to find a statement of beliefs, only opening statements (that you oppose gay marriage) and then rebuttals against people who try to argue with you.

Trust me...you didnt read through them all in that amount of time.

 

[jeps]

Trust me...you didnt read through them all in that amount of time.

read? no. skim well, yes.

 

[Arwon]

Listen, you guys are arguing because MobBoss and VRWC are using an incorrect definition of homosexuality. To them a homosexual is someone who has gay sex - which is not the correct definition - and which *is* a choice. You can have sex with a tree if you really wanted to.

I propose the "what goes through your head when you masturbate" measure of sexuality. Maybe they wanna argue that gays can control that.

 

[Mango Elephant]

I deleted my previous post because I realizes how stupid it was.

And I simply disagree as I see evidence of people making that choice all the time. Its certainly evident in the media...so I think people just dont want to acknowlege that because they simply cant handle it for some odd reason. But its true, a person can indeed go from being 'gayer than gay' to a heterosexual relationship married with kids. Its their choice.

Exactly. They can be in a heterosexual relationship, which is a choice, but they're still gay. They still like the same gender even if they're in a mixed-orientation relationship. And you can't simply get rid of your sexual orientation - you can fight it, but you fight it your entire life and it's something terrible to try to become straight.

Like Warpus said, you have a different definition of homosexuality.

 

[tycoonist]

Mobby, please restate these reasons why it affects you. I don't want to trawl through your mountainous pile of anti-gay posts to find them.

And also, could someone at least post a few scientific articles (preferably published in a respected journal) as to whether or not homosexuality is or is not genetic.

 

[RebelYeller]

Mobboss Posted:And I simply disagree as I see evidence of people making that choice all the time. Its certainly evident in the media...so I think people just dont want to acknowlege that because they simply cant handle it for some odd reason. But its true, a person can indeed go from being 'gayer than gay' to a heterosexual relationship married with kids. Its their choice.

True, not everyone thinks they can do that, or would even want to do it. But some do, and if some do, then its simply factual that it can be a choice that people make.

Its kinda like James Longstreet. One like him can go from fightin Ulysses Grant to votin for Ulysses Grant.

 

[madviking]

And also, could someone at least post a few scientific articles (preferably published in a respected journal) as to whether or not homosexuality is or is not genetic.

I got something pretty darn close.


Link to video.

 

[tycoonist]

I got something pretty darn close.

had seen it before, but its pretty good and actually pretty believable.

 

[civ_king]

Mobby, why don't you show us the evidence that gayness is not inborn.

Jeps' 52-55% heritability is an actual number supported by twin studies. That is a very impressive number pointing to the conclusion that gayness is a fairly heritable trait, especially in light of the fact that only 5-10% of the population is gay.

In other words, more than 5% of the entire population (1 out of 20 people = 1 out of 2 gays) are "born gay". At the very least, they have a strong inherited disposition to being gay.

This means that gayness is a strongly heritable trait. Have you contradictory evidence? Enlighten us.

or maybe the same conditions in the womb or similarity in environmental factors, I think the fact that it is ~50% and those molested are much more likely to be homosexual disproves it being wholly genetic and instead womb environment/nuture

 

[Traitorfish]

...those molested are much more likely to be homosexual...

A peculiar claim. Do you suggest that molestation by one of your own gender can "convert" a child to homosexuality, or that molestation by one of another gender can cause one to find "refuge" in homosexuality? And, in either case, on what basis do you make this assertion?