Defund Obamacare Or Risk Government Shutdown

[Kaitzilla]

If Obama Care was so good, why isnt Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

When the people who actually pass the legislation, use IT, then I will be inclined to agree with them.

Haha, that's funny. How many Congress kiddies go to public schools in DC?

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/chart-graph/congress-kids-absent-public-schools

 

[Antilogic]

That's a good point! Let's look at the CPI data for insurance costs.

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/cpi_nr.htm


Health Insurance
(Using Control+F to find)

Year up to Jan. 2013 +8.6%
Year up to Jan. 2012 They didn't measure Health Insurance inflation back in Jan. 2012 in the CPI-U data? Looks like the data starts showing up March 2012.



Well, this post was a fail.
I need another CPI rant.

So what about the rate of increase in private insurance premiums in the pre-ACA (or if you prefer, pre-Obamacare) era? Say in the mid-2000s, or the 1990s? Gotta have something to compare it to, we wouldn't want to do something asinine like assume that health insurance premiums are constant year-to-year excepting inflation (I had to resist posting a cruel smiley at Berzerker's post).

I tried to Ctrl+F health insurance and didn't find it on the page you linked.

 

[Berzerker]

If we had universal healthcare premiums wouldn't matter.

Taxes would matter, we gotta pay somehow.

If private insurance is so good, why isn't Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

Taxpayers are paying for their care, thats why they dont need private insurance. We're happy with BCBS, but our premiums will increase next year because of new Obamacare regulations and the continued cost shifting to cover Medicare and Medicaid.

 

[Kaitzilla]

So what about the rate of increase in private insurance premiums in the pre-ACA (or if you prefer, pre-Obamacare) era? Say in the mid-2000s, or the 1990s? Gotta have something to compare it to, we wouldn't want to do something asinine like assume that health insurance premiums are constant year-to-year excepting inflation (I had to resist posting a cruel smiley at Berzerker's post).

I tried to Ctrl+F health insurance and didn't find it on the page you linked.

Mmm, it looks like there is no telling what Obamacare did to insurance premiums.

According to this
http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifact4.htm

Health insurance is very difficult to measure because of quality vs. cost issues. If some company cuts what they cover and keep their price the same, is that inflation? And how would you measure it if it was?


That other page I linked, click on the Jan. 2013 link before trying to find Health Insurance data.

 

[ace99]

Taxes would matter, we gotta pay somehow.



Taxpayers are paying for their care, thats why they dont need private insurance. We're happy with BCBS, but our premiums will increase next year because of new Obamacare regulations and the continued cost shifting to cover Medicare and Medicaid.

They do use private insurance:

According to the Congressional Research Service, the FEHBP offers about 300 different private health care plans, including five government-wide, fee-for-service plans and many regional health maintenance organization (HMO) plans, plus high-deductible, tax-advantaged plans. All plans cover hospital, surgical and physician services, and mental health services, prescription drugs and “catastrophic” coverage against very large medical expenses. There are no waiting periods for coverage when new employees are hired, and there are no exclusions for preexisting conditions. The FEHBP negotiates contracts annually with all insurance companies who wish to participate. There is plenty of competition for the business; FEHBP is the largest employer-sponsored health plan in the U.S.

Those who don’t like their coverage may switch to another plan during a yearly “open season” period. To help with the choices, FEHBP conducts an annual “satisfaction survey” of each plan with more than 500 members and publishes the results.

 

[Ailedhoo]

O you Americans and your lack of a national health service.

 

[Berzerker]

So what about the rate of increase in private insurance premiums in the pre-ACA (or if you prefer, pre-Obamacare) era? Say in the mid-2000s, or the 1990s? Gotta have something to compare it to, we wouldn't want to do something asinine like assume that health insurance premiums are constant year-to-year excepting inflation (I had to resist posting a cruel smiley at Berzerker's post)

I didn't say that, but how do you know what I pay in premiums? I dont assume anything, I know what I pay - you dont. My premiums go up for various reasons (I wasn't offering a comprehensive list) including inflation and getting older (you left that out of your asinine assumption). I could have added the costs of state involvement, but that hasn't changed much in the last few years because Obamacare is just starting to kick in. And because it is kicking in, our premiums will go up even more. Why is this even debatable? The program is designed to cover people who cant afford the coverage, that means the people who can pay will pay more. Logic > antilogic

 

[Berzerker]

They do use private insurance:

You can discuss that with Park, he said they didn't, not me. I just said they dont need it because the taxpayers cover them.

 

[Antilogic]

Mmm, it looks like there is no telling what Obamacare did to insurance premiums.

According to this
http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifact4.htm

Health insurance is very difficult to measure because of quality vs. cost issues. If some company cuts what they cover and keep their price the same, is that inflation? And how would you measure it if it was?


That other page I linked, click on the Jan. 2013 link before trying to find Health Insurance data.

Long story short, I agree it's tough to tell. The best way people have tried to track the quality v. cost problem is to evaluate the inflation in health care premiums for the coverage of the same conditions against the CPI and a medical-specific CPI and to see whether they can tease trendlines out of that.

I didn't say that, but how do you know what I pay in premiums? I dont assume anything, I know what I pay - you dont. My premiums go up for various reasons (I wasn't offering a comprehensive list) including inflation and getting older (you left that out of your asinine assumption). I could have added the costs of state involvement, but that hasn't changed much in the last few years because Obamacare is just starting to kick in. And because it is kicking in, our premiums will go up even more. Why is this even debatable? The program is designed to cover people who cant afford the coverage, that means the people who can pay will pay more. Logic > antilogic

Nice try at backpedaling, dude. This is what you posted:

Why would my premium go up next year without Obamacare? A little maybe because I'd enter an older bracket and inflation. I know somebody who works for BCBS and she has confirmed their premiums are going up because of Obamacare. And that makes sense, right?

The question and answer you provided is lolworthy--your wording indicates your premiums will likely not increase except for maybe a little due to inflation or older bracket. No mention of these exceptions which no appear out of nowhere. And you provided nothing but an anecdote to follow-up.

The ACA also does not quite work in the method you described in your follow-up. The extension to people who are definitely cannot afford it occurs through the Medicaid extensions, not exclusively through private insurance. And it also brings in younger folks in their 20s and 30s who tend to be healthier and pay in more on average than they draw out.

So yeah, not as clear as you are trying to make it out to be.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Story is basically still the same. Most of us are going to take it in the butt, and soon.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Story is basically still the same. Most of us are going to take it in the butt, and soon.

Speak for yourself, I am going to be getting health insurance for the first time in 4 years soon.

Are you over 18 and using your parents insurance? If so why complain about Obamacare allowing you to do that?

 

[Berzerker]

Nice try at backpedaling, dude. This is what you posted:

Thanks for quoting me this time, using quotes in the future will help you avoid similar 'mistakes'. Notice how I mentioned inflation and getting older? Assuming the state hasn't intervened significantly like with Obamacare, those are the 2 main reasons my premium goes up. But you ignored advancing age and focused on inflation because you needed a strawman for insults. I'm not backpedaling, I wasn't offering a comprehensive list of everything that effects my premium. You made the convenient assumption I was trying to list everything so you could accuse me of leaving out reasons for higher premiums.

The question and answer you provided is lolworthy--your wording indicates your premiums will likely not increase except for maybe a little due to inflation or older bracket. No mention of these exceptions which no appear out of nowhere. And you provided nothing but an anecdote to follow-up.

I was the anecdote to begin with, so why wouldn't I follow up with my situation? And yes, advancing age and inflation increase my premium. Nothing you've said changes that reality. Your contribution is to tell us there are other factors, no kidding. And those exceptions dont appear out of nowhere, I mentioned them already, you ignored one and ridiculed the notion that I think - according to you - that only inflation effects my premium. I pay for this stuff and you dont think I know getting older increases my premium?

The ACA also does not quite work in the method you described in your follow-up. The extension to people who are definitely cannot afford it occurs through the Medicaid extensions, not exclusively through private insurance. And it also brings in younger folks in their 20s and 30s who tend to be healthier and pay in more on average than they draw out.

So yeah, not as clear as you are trying to make it out to be.

I didn't say exclusively, but Medicare and Medicaid do cost shift to insurers and their customers and Obamacare does include subsidies to help cover more people.

 

[Cutlass]

Why would my premium go up next year without Obamacare? A little maybe because I'd enter an older bracket and inflation. I know somebody who works for BCBS and she has confirmed their premiums are going up because of Obamacare. And that makes sense, right?

The cost of healthcare insurance has gone up every single year since the early 1980s. For what reason would you assume that it would not go up this year as well?

 

[Cutlass]

Well, that and the Dixiecrats actually bolting the party and running alternate presidential tickets. And Henry Wallace's campaign of Democratic bolters to the Progressive Party, which occurred simultaneously with one of the Dixiecrat revolts. And there were a few instances before with Progressive bolters in the Midwest.

The modern Dems have been taking their base for granted, and I think they have become complacent to the idea that their base will not bolt, despite a long history of it in the 20th century alone.



EDIT: I should say these things are impossible to predict nor would I predict either of the major parties would fracture in the next few years. But if the conditions are right, it's an outside possibility.

The Democrats have already lost white male labor. And all of labor has threatened to bolt. Blacks also have threatened to bolt. But what keeps them in line is not Democratic policies to appeal to them, but rather Republican policies to curbstomp them. If the Republicans ever wise up and adopt polices that are not deliberately designed to harm labor and minorities, the Democrats are screwed.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Speak for yourself, I am going to be getting health insurance for the first time in 4 years soon.

Are you over 18 and using your parents insurance? If so why complain about Obamacare allowing you to do that?

I'm not directing that towards Obamacare specifically. Or the Democrats. I'm also glad to hear that you'll be getting health insurance, congratulations

I just mean that it seems like there's a dangerous amount of pressure built up in our country, and I'm worried about what form the release of that pressure will take. I didn't mean it as an ideological statement.

 

[Chiteng]

If private insurance is so good, why isn't Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

I dont have to pay for someone else private insurance.
That makes it GREAT, in my opinion.

Dont ask me to pay for someone elses crap. I dont like that

 

[Cutlass]

I dont have to pay for someone else private insurance.
That makes it GREAT, in my opinion.

Dont ask me to pay for someone elses crap. I dont like that

They are paying for yours.

 

[galdre]

I dont have to pay for someone else private insurance.
That makes it GREAT, in my opinion.

Dont ask me to pay for someone elses crap. I dont like that

What about public libraries, public schools, the fire and police departments, national defense, roads, etc . . . should you only pay for what you use?

 

[RobAnybody]

I know somebody who works for BCBS and she has confirmed their premiums are going up because of Obamacare. And that makes sense, right?

The real answer is "it depends". Everyone's rates will go up because they always go up. The question is, how much will they go up compared to what they would have gone up anyway?

In general, if you're young &/or healthy, then higher than average. If you're old &/or sick, lower than average. Young males & old females will be higher while young females & old males will be lower (again, this is all *in general*).

If you had a pre-existing condition, then an extreme amount lower (although, I guess technically, if you didn't have a premium before, that means way higher than $0, but the point is you can get insurance now).

If you work for a small company (<51 employees) or are on individual coverage, you'll see bigger swings than if you work for a particularly large company (250+), which will be virtually unaffected by most of the regulations. The reason is that the insurance companies will no longer be able to take your claims into account. So, small groups or individuals that would have gotten lower increases will be higher than normal & those that would have gotten higher increases will be lower than normal as everyone gets an increase closer to the average.

If you're on Medicare or Medicare Advantage, you'll be pretty much unaffected (again, just compared to what you would have gotten if Obamacare didn't exist).

There will be some added fees for Obamacare, to help with subsidies. Your rate could go up in the 1-2% (EDIT: & probably a little higher when you renew in 2014 compared to your 2013 renewal) range just due to those fees. On the other hand, at your next renewal, adding millions of previously uninsured people to the risk pool should drive down average claims, which should mean lower premiums for everyone. Also, the insured won't be picking up the tab for the uninsured who go to the emergency room, & that will definitely drive down costs.


Also, just as a point of clarification for some people that need it (not you, Berzerker), there is no product called Obamacare. No one can "buy Obamacare". It's a set of regulations that apply to private companies. There is no "government plan" or Public Option. The government employees have insurance through private companies just like anyone else.

The only government plans are Medicare & Medicaid, & they already existed.

 

[Berzerker]

The cost of healthcare insurance has gone up every single year since the early 1980s. For what reason would you assume that it would not go up this year as well?

I know its been going up, I never said otherwise. I said it'll go up more next year (or is it this Oct?) when Obamacare starts kicking in. My good friend's wife works for BCBS and she's dealing with these new govt plans and regulations. And she said the premiums are going up "because" of Obamacare, not in spite of it.

The real answer is "it depends". Everyone's rates will go up because they always go up. The question is, how much will they go up compared to what they would have gone up anyway?

They're going up for customers of BCBS

The only government plans are Medicare & Medicaid, & they already existed.

The exchanges will be govt run and subsidies are part of the plan