Defund Obamacare Or Risk Government Shutdown

[Kaitzilla]

Less than they would have gone up anyways.

That's pretty funny. I'm thinking 10% instead of 9% myself.

 

[Antilogic]

Oh man, just when there was talk about the Republicans getting their game together.

This. That party has problems, and it doesn't look like they are going to solve them anytime soon.

It'd be easier for all of us if they broke into two parties (and break off the Democratic Progressive Caucus while we are at it to make four total). But due to the awesome USA #1 election process, that isn't a viable solution.

Yes lets try and kill the healthcare bill that was both upheld by the Supreme Court and which the President who passed it was re-elected by a substantial margin.

That will help get the women and minorities to vote for us.

It didn't work the last 30-some times because we didn't BELIEVE hard enough!

That's pretty funny. I'm thinking 10% instead of 9% myself.

You know, it's sad there hasn't been nor will be any accountability for incorrect predictions.

 

[ParkCungHee]

This. That party has problems, and it doesn't look like they are going to solve them anytime soon.

It'd be easier for all of us if they broke into two parties (and break off the Democratic Progressive Caucus while we are at it to make four total). But due to the awesome USA #1 election process, that isn't a viable solution.

Honestly, I bet the Democratic party breaks down first. I can easily imagine if they keep this up, the main opposition to the Democrats will be from the left, and Obama, and the Clintons etc. will continue to steer the Democratic party to the right to capitalize on the losses of the republicans.

 

[Antilogic]

Honestly, I bet the Democratic party breaks down first. I can easily imagine if they keep this up, the main opposition to the Democrats will be from the left, and Obama, and the Clintons etc. will continue to steer the Democratic party to the right to capitalize on the losses of the republicans.

Order of operations-wise, probably. The Republican purging, especially of their moderate northeast wing, has given up a lot of territory for the Democrats to occupy. And it's not like the modern Democratic party is known for discipline--how could they, with all those bolters in the presidential elections?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Actually, I think they have more discipline then most people give them credit for: it's just not the kind of discipline the Republicans have, centered around ideology.

The biggest hole I can figure in the above scenario is that the Democrats never suffer from a revolt of their liberal base.

 

[ace99]

I think the closest they might have come was during the Vietnam war. Things like LBJ and his defunding of the Young Democrats and such things.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I think the closest they might have come was during the Vietnam war. Things like LBJ and his defunding of the Young Democrats and such things.

So yeah, the Democrats got attacked from the left 45 freaking years ago. Comparatively, even before the Tea Party, you had Buchanan going after Bush in 92.

 

[Antilogic]

Actually, I think they have more discipline then most people give them credit for: it's just not the kind of discipline the Republicans have, centered around ideology.

The biggest hole I can figure in the above scenario is that the Democrats never suffer from a revolt of their liberal base.

I think the closest they might have come was during the Vietnam war. Things like LBJ and his defunding of the Young Democrats and such things.

Well, that and the Dixiecrats actually bolting the party and running alternate presidential tickets. And Henry Wallace's campaign of Democratic bolters to the Progressive Party, which occurred simultaneously with one of the Dixiecrat revolts. And there were a few instances before with Progressive bolters in the Midwest.

The modern Dems have been taking their base for granted, and I think they have become complacent to the idea that their base will not bolt, despite a long history of it in the 20th century alone.



EDIT: I should say these things are impossible to predict nor would I predict either of the major parties would fracture in the next few years. But if the conditions are right, it's an outside possibility.

 

[ace99]

The Dixiecrats are hardly the left, and when the Progressive and Populist Party's were around I wouldn't call the Democrats the left either.

 

[Antilogic]

The Dixiecrats are hardly the left, and when the Progressive and Populist Party's were around I wouldn't call the Democrats the left either.

It's not about left or right, though.

 

[Traitorfish]

The names Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Paul Ran and Ayn Rand confuse me.

I've just decided to condense them into one individual called "Raúl Pond".

 

[ace99]

It's not about left or right, though.

I thought we were talking about the last time the Democrats were challenged from the left.

Raúl Pond

Ru Paul has that covered.

 

[Antilogic]

I thought we were talking about the last time the Democrats were challenged from the left.

I was making a more general point about poor Democratic party discipline, which is applicable whether the challenge is coming from the left or the right.

 

[Berzerker]

Less than they would have gone up anyways.

Why would my premium go up next year without Obamacare? A little maybe because I'd enter an older bracket and inflation. I know somebody who works for BCBS and she has confirmed their premiums are going up because of Obamacare. And that makes sense, right?

 

[Luckymoose]

If we had universal healthcare premiums wouldn't matter.

 

[Kaitzilla]

...
You know, it's sad there hasn't been nor will be any accountability for incorrect predictions.

That's a good point! Let's look at the CPI data for insurance costs.

http://www.bls.gov/schedule/archives/cpi_nr.htm


Health Insurance
(Using Control+F to find)

Year up to Jan. 2013 +8.6%
Year up to Jan. 2012 They didn't measure Health Insurance inflation back in Jan. 2012 in the CPI-U data? Looks like the data starts showing up March 2012.



Well, this post was a fail.
I need another CPI rant.

 

[Chiteng]

If Obama Care was so good, why isnt Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

When the people who actually pass the legislation, use IT, then I will be inclined to agree with them.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If Obama Care was so good, why isnt Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

When the people who actually pass the legislation, use IT, then I will be inclined to agree with them.

If money is so great, why isn't everyone rich?

 

[ace99]

Congress does use Obamacare....it's been using it for a long time now, they can select among 300 private providers and they have employer coverage.

According to the Congressional Research Service, the FEHBP offers about 300 different private health care plans, including five government-wide, fee-for-service plans and many regional health maintenance organization (HMO) plans, plus high-deductible, tax-advantaged plans. All plans cover hospital, surgical and physician services, and mental health services, prescription drugs and “catastrophic” coverage against very large medical expenses. There are no waiting periods for coverage when new employees are hired, and there are no exclusions for preexisting conditions. The FEHBP negotiates contracts annually with all insurance companies who wish to participate. There is plenty of competition for the business; FEHBP is the largest employer-sponsored health plan in the U.S.

Those who don’t like their coverage may switch to another plan during a yearly “open season” period. To help with the choices, FEHBP conducts an annual “satisfaction survey” of each plan with more than 500 members and publishes the results.

Like other large employers, the government pays a large share of the cost of coverage. On average, the government pays 72 percent of the premiums for its workers, up to a maximum of 75 percent depending on the policy chosen. For example, the popular Blue Cross and Blue Shield standard fee-for-service family plan carries a total premium of $1,327.80 per month, of which the beneficiary pays $430.04. Washington, D.C.-based employees who prefer an HMO option might choose the Kaiser standard family plan. It carries a total premium of $825.15 per month, of which the employee pays only $206.29.

In addition, members of Congress also qualify for some medical benefits that ordinary federal workers do not. They (but not their families) are eligible to receive limited medical services from the Office of the Attending Physician of the U.S. Capitol, after payment of an annual fee ($491 in 2007). But services don’t include surgery, dental care or eyeglasses, and any prescriptions must be filled at the member’s expense.

House and Senate members (but not their families) also are eligible to receive care at military hospitals. For outpatient care, there is no charge at the Washington, D.C., area hospitals (Walter Reed Army Medical Center and National Naval Medical Center). Inpatient care is billed at rates set by the Department of Defense.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-congress/

 

[ParkCungHee]

If Obama Care was so good, why isnt Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.

If private insurance is so good, why isn't Congress using it?

That is how you know the entire thing is crap.