Do people actually go to "Palm readers" or fortunetellers/psychics?

[Narz]

I don't even bother going to these places.

What's the difference between them and the prophets of the BIble?

 

[Irish Caesar]

If you pay for psychics, I am sorry to say that you are being gipped.

Pun intended?

 

[King Flevance]

Yeah, and some people "know" that ghosts exist, some people "know" that mermaids exist, and some people "know" that little grey men exist.

If you're gonna make an extraordinary claim, you'll need extraordinary evidence to back it up with. Burden of proof lies with you, sorry buddy. Don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you're just making this up.

Why? You are telling me that you "know" it doesn't exist. Like I said, my testimony is all anyone can offer you. And that won't change anyone's opinion as if it matters anyways. I am not a psychic myself. Even if a psychic came to this messageboard, it wouldn't prove anything to anyone. But notice that the people that don't believe are also the people stating that they would NEVER try it out. And if they did that 1 person claiming to be psychic holds the fate of whether or not they will believe in it.

Scammers exist. No one that claims that it is real has denied this. But if you ever do try it out and you come across a scam-artist who takes your money then you have in your eyes "officially proven it is bogus" when all that really does is prove people scam in this department, like many other departments of life. Authentic cases aren't a very common thing to run across. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I have seen it myself. Does that make you believe me? No. I don't see anyway someone can use testimony to prove this. So until a psychic comes on with the ability to read people over an extremely long connection like the internet, trying to prove it will never happen. So anyone not wanting to see it is safe in their views in this thread.

 

[King Flevance]

What's the difference between them and the prophets of the BIble?

The prophets in the bible were revealing information meant for the followers of God. Most people doing reading of the future will have a harder time seeing things as clearly as the prophets from the bible for one. Also, people are usually wanting to know about their personal life instead of the good of mankind and the will of God.

 

[Loki cdn]

I am telling you, there is zero way she was faking. There is zero way for her to fake guess a series of numbers on a bill she cannot see, there is zero way for her to guess exact names of people in random wallet photographs.

At the end of the show she asked 3 people a different question:
The first person was asked how many people were in the room, in the audience.

The second person was asked: "If you won the lottery, what amount would it be"

The third person was asked what kind of car she would buy if she could buy any car.

-Person number one replied with the number of people in the audience.
-Person two replied with the amount of a mere $50 thousand dollars, an oddly low amount for a hypothetical question
-Person number three gave the maker of the car, the color, and the year it would be, (the maker of which was not really that popular)

The psycic then explained that she was on the plane to Wash. DC to come to our school and she predicted exactly the answers to those questions, wrote the answers down on a notecard, and had our convo leader sign and approve it before the show even started. It was then sealed in an envelope. After she explained this, she pulled out the note, and passed it around for all of us to see, that she had indeed predicted correctly. It was amazing.

The explanation is pretty simple. Why would a REAL psychic waste her talents entertaining a bunch of frat boys? Furthermore if her powers where geniune I am fairly certain she would be ah, involuntarily employed by the friendly neighbourhood Quantico boys.

 

[King Flevance]

Perhaps to educate college students that psychic intuition really does exist? If we are really trying to educate people and a rare but true fact like psychic intuition exists, don't we want people to learn that it exists and not to automatically disregard it as bogus?

 

[warpus]

Why? You are telling me that you "know" it doesn't exist.

I'm saying that I know that it's unlikely that it does. Nothing's for sure I leave the option of psychic powers existing.. time travel.. mermaids.. ghosts.. souls.. but this list is infinite. These things are all possible, but just unlikely.

They are all explanations that defy currently accepted models of how the Universe operates. They are extraordinary claims. They require extraordinary evidence. For now we can say that "it's possible", but invisible oranges are "possible". Until it's disproven, it can exist... maybe.

All we have is testimony. 99% of it is bogus, for sure. 1% could be genuine.. but these testimonies don't have a great track record We have no reason to imagine that this 1% (even if it's that) should be taken seriously either.

Imagine if the Theory of Relativity was based on testimony alone.. and that 99% of it was tested and turned out to be made up. The remaining 1% can't even be tested. Would you say that the Theory of Relativity, in this case, was a solid theory? No.. I hope not.

There would be people running around here and there claiming that it's true, but that wouldn't really mean anything unless their claims were based on anything other than just testimony.

The Theory of Relativity, in this case, would be "likely not true".. very likely not true.. so if we were having a discussion about it, then I would probably hold the position that it's likely not true.. like I am now with what we're talking about now.

And if they did that 1 person claiming to be psychic holds the fate of whether or not they will believe in it.

Belief has no influence on reality.

Scammers exist. No one that claims that it is real has denied this. But if you ever do try it out and you come across a scam-artist who takes your money then you have in your eyes "officially proven it is bogus" when all that really does is prove people scam in this department, like many other departments of life. Authentic cases aren't a very common thing to run across. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I know it doesn't.. but it also doesn't mean that it does exist.

You're using the "there are people out there who think it's true, therefore it must be true" logical fallacy.

I have seen it myself. Does that make you believe me? No. I don't see anyway someone can use testimony to prove this. So until a psychic comes on with the ability to read people over an extremely long connection like the internet, trying to prove it will never happen. So anyone not wanting to see it is safe in their views in this thread.

How safe we are in our views and beliefs is irrelevant. I am only after the truth. If you are after a worldview that makes you feel good, then that's your perogative, but do not claim that you are after the truth when you do that. You are after a reality that gives your life more of a purpose and makes you feel better.

Controlled experiments with these so-called psychics have been performed in labs around the world.. and what sort of positive evidence for any of there is there? NOTHING.

You require extraordinary evidence yet you have nothing.

 

[Stapel]

Gullible? There is no other explanation for it. That is the bottom line. You have provided crap for proof against it, when I asked for it. Way to go!

Your rejection of observation is no better than my acceptance of it. There is Zero way the psycic could have known who the people in the pictures were by their exact names, what they were doing in the pic, and when the photo was taken without being psycic. End of story. See my earlier posts before you play the whole "it was a set-up with the audience" routine. It wasn't.

Atlas, you have described exactly how illusionists operare. Congratulations dude, you have been able to 100% convince me you were succesfully tricked!

Of course there is a way the illusionist could have known who the people in the pictures were by their exact names, what they were doing in the pic, and when the photo was taken without being psycic!
You, and us in this thread, simply have not yet found out how. But that's how illusionists work!
Open your mind and try to accept this person was a illusionist. Move on from that point and see if you can come to another conclusion.
On the square I live on, lives one of Holland's top illusionists. He's capable of doing far more amazing things than you have experienced.

 

[King Flevance]

Imagine if the Theory of Relativity was based on testimony alone.. and that 99% of it was tested and turned out to be made up. The remaining 1% can't even be tested. Would you say that the Theory of Relativity, in this case, was a solid theory? No.. I hope not.

There would be people running around here and there claiming that it's true, but that wouldn't really mean anything unless their claims were based on anything other than just testimony.

But if I knew it to be true, then I know the truth and the majority of the people may think me crazy but I know the truth.

However, it is the people that know it is true that know the truth. The rest of the people that have not experienced such a case do not know the truth yet judge those who do. Because they are not "logical" people. Even though they know the truth to life more than the people demanding proof.

The Theory of Relativity, in this case, would be "likely not true".. very likely not true.. so if we were having a discussion about it, then I would probably hold the position that it's likely not true.. like I am now with what we're talking about now.

And you would be wrong.

Belief has no influence on reality.

Belief is the personal scope of reality. You either believe something or you don't. Neither stance changes reality. Most times seeing is believing. This is why I have tried to use the word 'see' in my posts instead of 'believe'.

You're using the "there are people out there who think it's true, therefore it must be true" logical fallacy.

Actually, I am using the "there are people who have seen it exists, therefore sorry for those of you who haven't." logic.

How safe we are in our views and beliefs is irrelevant. I am only after the truth. If you are after a worldview that makes you feel good, then that's your perogative, but do not claim that you are after the truth when you do that. You are after a reality that gives your life more of a purpose and makes you feel better.

I do seek truth. And I know psychic intuition is real. Your testimony about how you think I live my life will not change this. I am curious though how this gives me more comfort. I didn't say I had psychic abilities. That would be cool though. But my faith prohibits me from trusting these people, which is exactly why I believe God revealed them to me. I don't see how any of this "makes me feel better" as it puts more of a burden on me than simply not believing it.

Controlled experiments with these so-called psychics have been performed in labs around the world.. and what sort of positive evidence for any of there is there? NOTHING.

Many, many, many, many times the results: Undeterminable.

Not Nothing.

You require extraordinary evidence yet you have nothing.

All I have brought is yet another testimony and I never claimed it to be anything. You believe what you want. I know the truth. Those sound like bold words to you. But I don't need a science book to tell me what to believe in and what to stay wishy washy in. I know how to be as skeptical as the next guy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Cold reading

Derren Brown

You can't trust your eyes, mind or memory when dealing with this, just like youcan't trust them when dealing magic tricks, which is why it has to be done in an controlled monitored enviroment to be believable. And guess what, "it doesn't work that way", "Too much negative energy".

Sure there have been amazing tricks which I can't explain, but the same goes for magic tricks. So if it's possible to fool me and my senses in the one (magic tricks), why is it so hard to believe they are also fooled in the other occasion (psychic)

 

[thetrooper]

Why would you do something like that?

I never said I went there to get my palm read.

 

[King Flevance]

Cold reading

Derren Brown

Cold reading (mostly shotgunning as it is called here) is no new information. This is a long time known about scam. This is part of the 99% warpus referred to.

Darren Brown? I thought we all learned a long time ago to not believe what you see on T.V. Especially people seen as entertainers. He is a professional illusionist.

You can't trust your eyes, mind or memory when dealing with this, just like youcan't trust them when dealing magic tricks, which is why it has to be done in an controlled monitored enviroment to be believable. And guess what, "it doesn't work that way", "Too much negative energy".

I can trust my mind. It's called not believing it if you couldn't guess the same thing yourself. Magic trick are just slight of hand. (sp?) These two only compare in minor ways. The quotes "it doesn't work that way", and "too much negative energy" - especially the latter, are phrases to be highly skeptical of.

Sure there have been amazing tricks which I can't explain, but the same goes for magic tricks. So if it's possible to fool me and my senses in the one (magic tricks), why is it so hard to believe they are also fooled in the other occasion (psychic)

Because you see yourself as a fool if you believe it to be true if it was ever proven to you in either of these circumstances.

 

[Murky]

Well that's false - I can't see UV light, but I believe it exists *because there is reproducable evidence that it exists*.

Just because we don't have technology that can provide enough scientific evidence of the supernatural doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I have experienced it first hand so that is enough to make me a believer. It is unfortunate that not everyone has the ability to sense it because that leads to a lot of skepticism and jealousy. I think there is a lot of untapped potential there that we shouldn't be afraid to explore. Many people with psychic abilities don't learn to use them because they know they will be ridiculed and laughed at for it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Cold reading (mostly shotgunning as it is called here) is no new information. This is a long time known about scam. This is part of the 99% warpus referred to.

Darren Brown? I thought we all learned a long time ago to not believe what you see on T.V. Especially people seen as entertainers. He is a professional illusionist.

Well, he often shows how the human mind can be decieved, that's why I linked him.

I can trust my mind. It's called not believing it if you couldn't guess the same thing yourself. Magic trick are just slight of hand. (sp?) These two only compare in minor ways. The quotes "it doesn't work that way", and "too much negative energy" - especially the latter, are phrases to be highly skeptical of.

I am reffering to the mind as the organ that tries to interpret the senses and can't make sense of it. Not the mind that reasons.

Because you see yourself as a fool if you believe it to be true if it was ever proven to you in either of these circumstances.

Again, maybe a bad choice of words on my part. By fooling me I don't mean I believe there are magic powers in play, but fooling me as in tricking me. How did the 8 of hearts I picked magically wind up in the closed enveloppe?

 

[Atlas14]

Atlas, you have described exactly how illusionists operare. Congratulations dude, you have been able to 100% convince me you were succesfully tricked!

Of course there is a way the illusionist could have known who the people in the pictures were by their exact names, what they were doing in the pic, and when the photo was taken without being psycic!
You, and us in this thread, simply have not yet found out how. But that's how illusionists work!
Open your mind and try to accept this person was a illusionist. Move on from that point and see if you can come to another conclusion.
On the square I live on, lives one of Holland's top illusionists. He's capable of doing far more amazing things than you have experienced.

But there is no way she could have known. I mean it is pretty cut and dry here. You all are trying to say, "Well she tricked you, way to go", and I am telling you, there is no way for me to have been "tricked". I am not convinced that there is any other explanation for being able to guess exact names of people in photos, exact serial numbers of $1, $5, and $20 bills. Being able to predict before the show exactly how many people were going to attend, exactly what two other members were going to say in response to two oddball questions. There is simply no other explanation. With magic, I can at least say, "Well there was definately elements of trickery, I don't know what, but there were, and it was a very good trick", but with this, there was absolutely zero evidence of any trickery whatsoever.

The explanation is pretty simple. Why would a REAL psychic waste her talents entertaining a bunch of frat boys? Furthermore if her powers where geniune I am fairly certain she would be ah, involuntarily employed by the friendly neighbourhood Quantico boys.

She does not use her powers for personal gain at the expense of other people. She has a website online, I cannot remember her name, but I am sure some Googling could find it.

 

[.Shane.]

She does not use her powers for personal gain at the expense of other people. She has a website online, I cannot remember her name, but I am sure some Googling could find it.

You realize there are about a million psychics, right? So, unless you have her name, googling won't work.

 

[Woodgar]

Here's how the tricks work, or at least explanations more plausible than spooky mind powers...

Reading the serial numbers

The psychic had memorised the numbers before the show began.

These shows always have souvenirs or other items for sale: programmes, drinks, badges, snacks, and so on. By handing out the pre-memorised notes as change and then picking on the person who has the note during the performance the psychic can appear to do the impossible.

This might take some arranging, such as picking on the customers who state "Sorry, I only have a twenty, nothing less" and giving them a pre-memorised ten as change, but it would not be beyond the wit of the psychic's secret helpers to secure this. A simple code could then be used to inform the psychic that the current audience member was given the third note out of, say, ten notes in total, to alert the psychic as to the correct serial number to reproduce.


Describing previously unseen photographs

The psychic already knew the contents of each photograph and the order in which she would have to describe them.

Prior to the event, and it could have been days or even weeks prior so as to not arouse suspicion, the psychic's secret helpers had used some simple social engineering tricks to get a look at the photos.

They could have sat next to an intended victim in the college bar, rest area, library or what-have-you, and struck up a conversation with them. They could have casually let slip that they carry photos of loved ones in their wallet and got them out to show around. The intended victim would most likely have reciprocated and shown off any photos that they were carrying as well.

Alternatively, a simple exchange of names would have allowed the secret helpers to check through local records to search for information relating to the intended future victim. Or a casual swapping of pleasantries would reveal that the person grew up in a different part of the country, revealed their parents names, their siblings ages, and the name of their pet goldfish and deceased grandparents.

Such information would allow the psychic to perform feats beyond human comprehension in a few weeks time.


Predicting someones thoughts and the car they would choose

This, whilst not something I could do myself, is an almost trivial act to one accomplished in this area of magic and illusion.

Derren Brown, as was previously mentioned, pulls off this kind of thing all the time. I've only seen his shows on the television, but by all accounts his live stage shows are as equally impressive. By subtly implanting ideas into a person's subconscious it is possible to direct them towards any pre-arranged answer that you choose.

Even if some things are totally unpredictable, you can still cheat by using slight-of-hand techniques to give the impression that a previous prediction that you made has turned out to be true. Magicians do this all the time in various card tricks. Changing the contents of an envelope entrusted in advance, maybe even days in advance, to a member of the audience might be tricky, but it is not beyond a reasonable expectation.



Whilst the above may not have been the way the psychic really did all of her tricks, it at least shows that they could have been accomplished without having to use a bunch of Jedi mind tricks.

 

[Swedishguy]

Anyway where i live i see palm reader shops, and fortune teller shops in many places.

I mean who actually wastes their money on that crap?

Do they actually beileve it? How retarted. Thats just as bad as joining the church of scientology. I hope i dont know anyone who throws away thier money on that crap.

I've never met any!

 

[Bamspeedy]

I've only seen one palm-reading shop in my area, but that was a few years ago and I don't know if it is still open.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Wow, well put Woodgar. The 'change for souveneirs' thing is the slickest (imho) but definetely doable. Are you a renegade gypsy or something?