Do you ever hold your tongue on facts to avoid arguments?

[civvver]

I was with inlaws over thanksgiving who I actually like and get along with just fine, but they can be stubborn as all get out at times. My wife also is one who hates when I present facts and call her wrong about things, or google things on my phone to show her, like actual factual things. Like as an example, one time we were discussing grandparents and I mentioned how my grandma left us a decent chunk of money when she died and she said wow where did that money go? And I reminded her our honeymoon was at a very expensive place and we spent the majority on that. She goes no, no way it was not that much. That stuff just drives me crazy when she completely misremembers facts, it makes me want to pull our credit card statements and show her, but of course if I do that I'm the jerk for having to always be right.

Another example, we live in Michigan and were talking about the election around election time and I said there's no way trump will win Michigan, Michigan hasn't voted for a republican since the first bush. And she said that's not true, the second bush won Michigan at least one of his runs. And I said uh no he didn't. And she said yes I distinctly remember cus I was in college at the time, like somehow that bolsters her case? I don't really know what her point was with that, but again I have to whip out my phone and she gets all mad at me for pointing out her mistake and acting like a jerk and showing her up. Facts be damned I guess.

So, back to thanksgiving, we were discussing how an aunt who is a bank teller was getting laid off and unemployment came up and I said well unemployment for her probably isn't that bad, cus what do bank tellers make? Maybe $15 an hour? More? Cus unemployment in Michigan maxes at $362 a week which is the equivalent of $9 an hour for 40 hours. I knew offhand it didn't take much to max it either cus I remembered my wife was laid off from teaching one summer and got the max and she had an annual salary in the 30s. So my thinking was she would probably make more than half her salary while not working and looking for another job, which isn't that bad if you can afford it. For someone like me to be on unemployment would be catastrophic cus it wouldn't come near replacing my income, which is sort of the point, you want people to actively be looking for work.

However when I mentioned this my inlaws who are small business owners said no it's a percentage of what you make. And I said yes but it caps really low and is easy to reach the cap. And then insisted no there is no cap and they knew cus they often have to pay the benefit when they lay people off.

Of course it was at that time my wife gave me the look like you had better drop this argument, saying well they run a business so they know better than you. Despite the fact they were blatantly wrong and a 2 second google search could prove that.

So my question is, in a situation like that would you insist on showing them the facts and risk angering people or would you just drop it cus who really cares? I mean it doesn't personally affect me, but on the other hand why would someone be mad at facts? There's literally no interpretation there. Really they would be mad that they were wrong and I pointed it out, which is understandable. However if someone did that to me I would go oh wow I was totally wrong, thanks for pointing that out. I don't get why others are so emotional about being wrong about stuff that is quite literally black and white. However I hold my tongue all the time in conversations with my wife just cus I don't want to anger her lol.

Do you do the same?

 

[Commodore]

Yeah, I do it all the time. There's nothing wrong with it either. You get one life and one family, so sometimes getting along is more important than being right. This is good even if you aren't dealing with family because what's the point in being right if no one wants to be around you because they see you as a snobby, arrogant know-it-all.

 

[Farm Boy]

Spoiler Sometimes there are five. :

 

[Esperr]

I will remain silent or try to change the subject. Most hills arent worth dying on.

 

[CavLancer]

In my long experience with the ladies, the ladies of the West particularly, it might not be that she really disbelieves that the money was blown on the honeymoon. That was your first mistake btw. Logic is right out remember, facts that get in thew way of emotion are disregarded. You are in a contentious relationship unless you give in, even if its a fact. Been there dude, done that. It might be that she saw a shiny thing that she's fallen in love with and wishes she had that money back so she can blow it again. One would think that such a smart, witty, beautiful, and with it person could not think that but I'm telling you, seen it before. That was the last time you guys had significant money? That's what it is, trust me. Likely she got with her friends and one of them has a shiny new blah and all 'the girls' fawned over it and now she wants one. If you go into debt and get her one, next time she's out with 'the girls' you'll be facing the same **** but this time you'll be in debt.

Don't mean to be critical, not at all, just life, get used to it. But I tell you this: Men and women are d i f f e r e n t. If what I described is the case, and it often is, then if you are the breadwinner the real message here is that you aren't making enough bread. Edit: But trust me, in fact, t h a t is not the problem.

I'll catch crap from the ladies on the forum for this civvver. I'd have done better holding my tongue, but I'm not really good at that anyway. My point is this, you owe me a beer if we ever meet. You owe me a beer!

 

[Traitorfish]

Knowing when to bite your tongue is a pretty basic part of being an adult, I think. We don't always appreciate it, because people don't broadcast when when they're avoiding an argument, would defeat the point, so it's easy to assume that disagreements are always automatically vocalised, but I think this kind of basic, everyday diplomacy is something that most people do instinctively, because for all their faults, they're neither fanatics nor boors.

Roughly paraphrasing Donald Glover, part of being an adult is knowing that sometimes you just have to let people be stupid.

 

[Bamspeedy]

My parents watch nothing but Fox News. So they think Canadians HATE their healthcare (which they probably don't like certain things about it, but that doesn't mean they would prefer our system), my dad's heart surgery was a success of the US healthcare system (which it is, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have survived under other systems....they don't have waiting lists for open heart surgery....my mom's knee surgery might have been on a waiting list, but not my dad's heart surgery. There are already defacto wait lists when it can take months to see a specialists because there are no appointments available sooner.) When I tell them how terrible the health insurance deductibles are now, they probably think it's because of Obamacare, when those were going way up before Obama. I probably made their blood boil when I pointed out that if Trump repeals Obamacare my wife would encourage us to drop our health insurance if that is no longer required for us to have (yet another headache in my life), because they know how important it is to have that insurance, even if my wife thinks we won't need it (as if she is psychic and can predict medical problems).

They probably fear I voted for Hillary because I've hinted to some of these truths, but I don't flat out point out the sources that would prove Fox News wrong, especially not at Thanksgiving dinner when they are gloating about Trump's win.....I told them I didn't vote and that no matter who I vote for I would feel 'dirty' afterwards, and anybody else doesn't have a chance.

In the primary they wanted Trump to win, even though they said they were embarrassed by him sometimes, but they didn't feel anyone else was a better candidate. And of course in any election they will never vote for a 'D'.

 

[Zkribbler]

My wife also is one who hates when I present facts and call her wrong about things,

Presenting the fact is one thing, but why follow up with calling her wrong? That's only going to make her defensive and angry? From time to time, I've been proven wrong, which I appreciate because I learned something. But when the person who's right then attempt to humiliate me, there's going to be a problem.

I suggest you present the facts but drop the 'tude.

 

[Kozmos]

Only with people I calculate there is a high probability might murder me, directly or indirectly. I'm honest and rude otherwise. I figure that's the main reason I am single.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sounds like if you do get married though, you're likely to stay that way.

 

[Angst]

I have an American relative who visited our family last spring or so, my mother and brother casually started talking about the decrease in entitlements and how it was a problem, and then my American relative blurted out, basically, that the Danish economy is awful because our car registration tax is so high. It was honestly stupid, there's much more to an economy than that, and it is completely warped by the urban designs of Texan cities. I didn't explain anything to him, and he left obviously thinking we were all idiots. I don't mind not talking politics with my family because I'm an extremist when it comes to green policy, although other than that I'm a moderate in Denmark - it just isn't worth the work. Also I prefer staying on good terms, which took a while. But my relative... I'm not even sure I want to visit him anymore. The whole conversation was just so bloody dumb.

 

[The_J]

Never had that situation really.
For opinions I had, and there I just drop it, it doesn't really matter too much, everyone has their own.
For facts...I'd probably still point out the errors. If you'r wrong, then you're wrong, that's it.
If it happens all the time...then I guess it's time to still learn some diplomacy. You can only convince someone/make someone acknowledge their mistakes, if you give them a way to retreat in dignity. If you say "you've been wrong, and you're stupid", that will make a person angry. If you give explanations why (like "you might have gotten this wrong because XY, and that's understandable, many people do that), then you have a higher chance in succeeding.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Wow, this thread became a real life example of the question posed. Amazing.

 

[CavLancer]

Well represented by your avatar btw.

 

[Kozmos]

Sounds like if you do get married though, you're likely to stay that way.

You jest, but I always liked women who weren't afraid to pick up a knife and threaten me. Really worked out well with my low tolerance for emotional arguments.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Of course it was at that time my wife gave me the look like you had better drop this argument, saying well they run a business so they know better than you. Despite the fact they were blatantly wrong and a 2 second google search could prove that.

That was your que to drop the subject its not really worth the argument
Your probably better off, pointing out a few balded faced Trump lies / scandles / trainwreck over the coming next four years

 

[Perfection]

Never give up! Never Surrender!

 

[Farm Boy]

You jest, but I always liked women who weren't afraid to pick up a knife and threaten me. Really worked out well with my low tolerance for emotional arguments.

Well, I think spouses are always the first suspect for good reason. But, life is for the living and the heart wants what the heart wants. So...

Spoiler :

 

[civvver]

My parents watch nothing but Fox News. So they think Canadians HATE their healthcare (which they probably don't like certain things about it, but that doesn't mean they would prefer our system), my dad's heart surgery was a success of the US healthcare system (which it is, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have survived under other systems....they don't have waiting lists for open heart surgery....my mom's knee surgery might have been on a waiting list, but not my dad's heart surgery. There are already defacto wait lists when it can take months to see a specialists because there are no appointments available sooner.) When I tell them how terrible the health insurance deductibles are now, they probably think it's because of Obamacare, when those were going way up before Obama. I probably made their blood boil when I pointed out that if Trump repeals Obamacare my wife would encourage us to drop our health insurance if that is no longer required for us to have (yet another headache in my life), because they know how important it is to have that insurance, even if my wife thinks we won't need it (as if she is psychic and can predict medical problems).

They probably fear I voted for Hillary because I've hinted to some of these truths, but I don't flat out point out the sources that would prove Fox News wrong, especially not at Thanksgiving dinner when they are gloating about Trump's win.....I told them I didn't vote and that no matter who I vote for I would feel 'dirty' afterwards, and anybody else doesn't have a chance.

In the primary they wanted Trump to win, even though they said they were embarrassed by him sometimes, but they didn't feel anyone else was a better candidate. And of course in any election they will never vote for a 'D'.

I see most of what you presented as opinions and judgement calls though. Even though they may be wrong (yes opinions can definitely be wrong) it's extremely hard to prove and not worth it most times. The only time I would argue with an opinion with family is if it was going to directly hurt me in some immediate form. You might say but voting for trump will hurt everyone! well again that's opinion. I'm talking about like if it's their opinion that smoking around my kids is ok. Stuff like that. The only actual black and white fact you presented was that you didn't vote at all and they might fear you voted clinton. That's just emotional and illogical if you told them that already.

Like my in laws are really ocd about certain things, my mother in law washes the dishes before using the dishwasher you know? She scrubs them with water til all the food is off so you can't even tell what's clean and dirty in the dishwasher, then she runs it. With the new dishwashers this is completely unnecessary and I've actually heard it messes with the dishwashers sensors so it won't clean properly. But that's not something I would ever argue with them cus it's closer to an opinion than a fact. They aren't really doing anything wrong or telling me I'm doing anything wrong doing it my way.

But when you say something like yeah unemployment caps at 350 something a week and they go that's not true, that irks me to be called wrong about something that is clearly factual.

In my long experience with the ladies, the ladies of the West particularly, it might not be that she really disbelieves that the money was blown on the honeymoon. That was your first mistake btw. Logic is right out remember, facts that get in thew way of emotion are disregarded. You are in a contentious relationship unless you give in, even if its a fact. Been there dude, done that. It might be that she saw a shiny thing that she's fallen in love with and wishes she had that money back so she can blow it again. One would think that such a smart, witty, beautiful, and with it person could not think that but I'm telling you, seen it before. That was the last time you guys had significant money? That's what it is, trust me. Likely she got with her friends and one of them has a shiny new blah and all 'the girls' fawned over it and now she wants one. If you go into debt and get her one, next time she's out with 'the girls' you'll be facing the same **** but this time you'll be in debt.

Don't mean to be critical, not at all, just life, get used to it. But I tell you this: Men and women are d i f f e r e n t. If what I described is the case, and it often is, then if you are the breadwinner the real message here is that you aren't making enough bread. Edit: But trust me, in fact, t h a t is not the problem.

I'll catch crap from the ladies on the forum for this civvver. I'd have done better holding my tongue, but I'm not really good at that anyway. My point is this, you owe me a beer if we ever meet. You owe me a beer!

Actually you're really off the mark dude and I don't think I presented it as such. We were actually with our cousins and discussing seeing my wife's grandma cus she is like 85 and they worry about her dying soon. And one of them said do you know she told me we all get 5 grand when she dies? So it came up that way. Yes the honeymoon was expensive and my wife picked the place, but it's not like I didn't sign off or enjoy it. She's very frugal, not materialistic at all except that she believes in the mantra you get what you pay for a bit too much so she assumes stuff like new cars are always safer/more reliable/better than used cars and worth the money and brand name appliances and food and stuff are better options than store brands. But she shops at places like kohl's and used clothing stores for herself and our kids. So no, she wasn't sizing up to buy something she was just inquiring.

Presenting the fact is one thing, but why follow up with calling her wrong? That's only going to make her defensive and angry? From time to time, I've been proven wrong, which I appreciate because I learned something. But when the person who's right then attempt to humiliate me, there's going to be a problem.

I suggest you present the facts but drop the 'tude.

Hmm maybe I presented that wrong, I don't call her stupid or say insulting things, I just say uh actually that's not what happened, Michigan voted democrat for 6 straight elections see? I don't go NO YOU ARE WRONG YOU STUPIDHEAD. Cus that's just juvenile. I don't think I come off as a know it all jerk, but maybe I do.

 

[CavLancer]

My bad civvver, she sounds like a wonderful woman. I am perhaps a bit long term conditioned in my thinking by a few relationships and extrapolating that. For example my first wife was ranting on me for not doing anything around the house...while I was covered in dust, tool belt on, and ripping out the functional bathroom she hated to totally redo it in a manner that she wanted. Just one example. Perhaps I should say nothing in relationship threads because of such.