Do you support a Libertarian Utopia?

[Joecoolyo]

Somalia is not the anarcho-capitalist paradise it's made out to be. Them Islamic militias expect protection money (taxes) and offer public services in kind, for a start.

Well the point of the Somalia thing isn't that it's the anarcho-caitalist paradise, but more-so to point out the result of a state turning into one.

 

[amadeus]

Beyond that, there is a deeply authoritarian current running through Objectivist thought. Their opposition to the state is, in essence, that it gets in the way of the great Promethean elite subsuming society to their will as effectively as they otherwise would, which even the most capitalistic of anarchist-capitalists would find a little stomach-churning.

It's this "progress"-at-all-costs mentality that I think leads a lot of Objectivists into supporting things that conflict with their ideology; Rand was a zealous supporter of Israel as a "civilized" nation and believed that the U.S. government had a moral obligation to support (subsidize) Israel.

 

[Crezth]

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.

They are not the sole producers of wealth (though I can't imagine anyone being as myopic as to suggest such a thing) but businessmen have a useful function in the economy.

My point is precisely that businessmen are not the sole productive members of society.

As a matter of personal conjecture, I would go so far as to suggest that if all businessmen vanished simultaneously, the effect would not be as dire as if all scientists, doctors, engineers, and workers vanished simultaneously. Or any one of those four, actually. But this was not the point I was trying to make.

And there are many people who are seriously deluded into believing that businessmen are inherently more valuable and productive than most simply because they make more money. It's kind of the Republicans' thing.

 

[Leoreth]

Do you support a Libertarian Utopia, let’s say in Texas with Ron Paul as the leader? I am so sick of hearing crazy libertarian arguments about taxes at gunpoint etc that I’d just like to be rid of them. They remind me of old time Communist apologists who claim they have the answer to all our problems it’s just that it is never implemented in the correct way. So let them have Texas, with all the oil and infrastructure to give them a head start. They can have a refund of all the SS and Medicare $$ they have put in based on population but all federal and defense industry must be pulled out. No dollars we will pay them off in gold. They can smoke weed all day while running their glorious entrepreneurial society.

Why give them oil? That's like Rand's perpetuum mobile ... an outside grant to sustain an ideology that can't stand on its own feet.

Give them Somalia, that also has the advantage of almost no government left to be abolished. Yay!

 

[Traitorfish]

Why give them oil? That's like Rand's perpetuum mobile ... an outside grant to sustain an ideology that can't stand on its own feet.

Well, Chavez gets his little game of petro-Peronism down in Venezuela, so it's only fair that the right get a shot at it as well.

 

[danjuno]

Biased poll, much? I'm happy with a Libertarian utopia. As a matter of fact, there are plenty of them right now, mainly in Africa!

 

[GhostWriter16]

Is there any such thing? Regulating banks is "aggression" against taxpayers and banks. Not regulating banks is "aggression" against literally everyone else.

So explain to me how "non aggression" is possible.

There are more taxpayers than just the top 1%.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Do you support a Libertarian Utopia, let’s say in Texas with Ron Paul as the leader? I am so sick of hearing crazy libertarian arguments about taxes at gunpoint etc that I’d just like to be rid of them. They remind me of old time Communist apologists who claim they have the answer to all our problems it’s just that it is never implemented in the correct way. So let them have Texas, with all the oil and infrastructure to give them a head start. They can have a refund of all the SS and Medicare $$ they have put in based on population but all federal and defense industry must be pulled out. No dollars we will pay them off in gold. They can smoke weed all day while running their glorious entrepreneurial society.

Would you move there? What would be the result in 10 yrs, 50 yrs?

The rest of the United States would invade, because of the "unfair economic advantage of Texas" and "they are stealing all our best people, acting as an offshore haven, taking all our jobs etc".

The fact is, free-market capitalism works extremely well - it just creates extreme disparities in wealth and sometimes in opportunity. It is the latter that people dislike - no-one seriously suggests that capitalism does not deliver the goods, they just argue about who gets them.

 

[Cutlass]

The rest of the United States would invade, because of the "unfair economic advantage of Texas" and "they are stealing all our best people, acting as an offshore haven, taking all our jobs etc".

The fact is, free-market capitalism works extremely well - it just creates extreme disparities in wealth and sometimes in opportunity. It is the latter that people dislike - no-one seriously suggests that capitalism does not deliver the goods, they just argue about who gets them.

Why would we have to invade when the economy there would collapse and they'd beg us to let them back in?

 

[Berzerker]

why would the economy collapse?

 

[Cutlass]

Because they don't pay attention to the extent that the government is the foundation of the economy. Without government, no roads, no police, no fire, no hospitals, no courts, ect ect. People would be forced to leave because of the collapse of their incomes. Businesses would initially be interested, but the lack of protection they depend on would make them relocate. Eventually there would be essentially nothing left.

 

[Berzerker]

Libertarianism /= no government

 

[Cutlass]

Libertarianism /= no government

No. But the Ron Paul version is so close to it that no economy can stand for long. Though it would be funny for a libertarian utopia to be running on a foreign currency because they couldn't make one of their own.

 

[Berzerker]

gold isn't a foreign currency

 

[Cutlass]

Well, it's debatable whether or not Paul wants gold. Some people believe both ways. But it would be funny as hell if they did pick gold, because it would cause the economy to crash. And so everyone would actually use the US$

 

[Akkon888]

A libertarian utopia must contain people with an infinite amount of liberties, so long as they do not infringe on the liberties of anyone else.

Thus, if one is to exist, the result would essentially be self-regulating capitalism. It would be this because under-regulation and and extreme wealth polarization would result in the infringement of liberty, and if this happens, the libertarian utopia would not exist.

Because the utopia is defined in the OP as existing for an infinite period of time, I support it. Otherwise, I would be against it because natural economic entropy would prevent it from existing very long.

 

[mangxema]

PS: If this were libertarian, wouldn't weed be allowed?

Absolutely! Among other things...

Thus, if one is to exist, the result would essentially be self-regulating capitalism. It would be this because under-regulation and and extreme wealth polarization would result in the infringement of liberty, and if this happens, the libertarian utopia would not exist.

Would not the fact that it's a utopia imply perfect regulation, just enough but no more?

 

[Akkon888]

Would not the fact that it's a utopia imply perfect regulation, just enough but no more?

Yes. I was saying that under-regulation and the subsequently hellish economic scenario would not be possible if the libertarian utopia would be perfect. Essentially, I agree with you.

 

[Cutlass]

Would not the fact that it's a utopia imply perfect regulation, just enough but no more?

Perfect according to who?

 

[amadeus]

Libertarianism /= no government

You and I need to have a talk.