Do you support the troops?
- Thread starter Aleenik
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Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
An objective morality, not Objectivism.
This, though my last question about obeying and order that one finds immoral should be applicable regardless of the truth of moral relativism.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
What you think is immoral or moral has nothing to do with the legality of the order given you. You signed a contract, and took an oath based upon legality, not morality, thus its legality thats the standard thats going to be used in your Court Martial if you break that oath and pledge.
You can spend years in prison for doing something illegal, that you found moral I guess. I dont envision that being a problem for me.
We've had tons of threads about this. This isnt one of them.
CaptainF
The Professional Poster
I've become quite sick of this phrase to be honest. It reeks of cultist military worship, and I'll have none of it.
I know plenty of folks in the armed services and hold no ill will towards them personally but I the military is another thing altogether. It's been nothing more than a tool for the rich and well connected for generations now, much like Ike feared. In recent years this trend has only become more and more blatant. Why anyone would willingly submit to such an odious system is beyond me, but good luck if you choose to do so.
Tecknojock
Keeping the world running
Your right, but that wasn't the question. The question was "Doesn't a moral agent have a duty to act morally?"
If the answer is yes, then either it's the morality of the actions, not the legality of the actions needs to be questioned or a soldier must be shown to lose their moral agency.
Does that mean that morality is irrelevant for soldiers, as long as their orders are legal? Or do you want to say that soldiers should still be punished if they, say, disobey immoral orders? If so, isn't that a hint of flaws in these kind of laws?
On topic: While I don't support most military operations, even among the few that Germany is involved with, I actually do support our troops. That doesn't mean I go cheering to some parades which are non-existant here anyway, just that I wish them to carry out their job successfully and without incidents. They deserve respect for putting themselves into danger for something they might not even agree with, but no reverence.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Well said.
I support a strong defense and that's about it. I certainly don't support most of the US foreign policy decisions since the end of WWII, the way the US military has been used to implement those decisions, nor do I like the way much of it has now become dominated by evangelical Christians.
After the end of the Vietnam War, I used to recommend to people to join the military as a way to escape economic hardship. But I no longer do so. The pluses no longer outweigh the minuses, and you may very well be assigned to the next conflict that generates even more blowback.
Singularity
Infinite Density
I support the troops. I don't necessarily support the politics behind how they're used though. But I always support the troops, both the Norwegian and our NATO ally USA.
Also, I'm a bit curious to the OP location; French Foreign Legions HQ. Doesn't seem like a good place to be for a guy with your viewpoint. Or is it only US troops you don't support?
Also, I'm a bit curious to the OP location; French Foreign Legions HQ. Doesn't seem like a good place to be for a guy with your viewpoint. Or is it only US troops you don't support?
I respect the need for a military and respect those that sign on, but really think we need to slash the defense budget.
I'm not French. I'm American. The name was originally intended to mean fan of the French Civ in Civ games. I didn't put much thought into the name. However, I've had this name for so long, I don't think I'd want to change it, even if I could.
Nice try, but I'm not that hypocritical. I made that loation back around when I made this account, mainly just to go with my CFC name. Also, my political views have changed a lot since then. I used to watch Fox News, I supported Republicans, and I liked people like Glenn Beck
Communisto
Condottiere
I support the Canadian military. Every deployment since the end of British determination has been, in my opinion, completely justifiable. Whether I think these missions have/had a good probability of success or that the people being intervened upon deserve Canadian deaths and blood spilled on their behalf is another thing.
Also, despite my Harper Hate, we do need a working airforce.
Also, despite my Harper Hate, we do need a working airforce.
GhostWriter16
Deity
They did not know where they would be sent. But my only point was that they can't necessarily be held responsible for what their superiors order them to do (Notice I'm in the middle of this debate, which makes everyone nitpick my posts and nobody actually support them
What about people with religious opposition?
And besides, why the heck would we need a draft right now anyway?
I began noticing in 2001 that when the phrase "Support Our Troops" was used in public settings, it was often being used as propaganda. Because the phrase is so loaded and vague, in public the only correct response is to, of course, agree to Support Your Troops. But what does it mean to support our troops? It doesn't matter. Just support them you dbag.
In such settings no one wants to hear dissenting viewpoints about the war mission itself. In fact, the propaganda of "Support our Troops" is specifically designed to shut people up about discussing the validity of the mission. This wouldn't be such a problem, except that there is an obvious conflict of interest, since this propaganda designed to shut us up comes from those who would support the mission regardless of it's morality. They support the mission and want us all to shut up, because they feel that their soldier family member's safety trumps my concern regarding the long term welfare of America.
Sometimes losing a war can be a long term benefit, if it triggers a positive policy shift and better thinking. That trumps any one military unit's safety, sorry but you work for us.
In such settings no one wants to hear dissenting viewpoints about the war mission itself. In fact, the propaganda of "Support our Troops" is specifically designed to shut people up about discussing the validity of the mission. This wouldn't be such a problem, except that there is an obvious conflict of interest, since this propaganda designed to shut us up comes from those who would support the mission regardless of it's morality. They support the mission and want us all to shut up, because they feel that their soldier family member's safety trumps my concern regarding the long term welfare of America.
Sometimes losing a war can be a long term benefit, if it triggers a positive policy shift and better thinking. That trumps any one military unit's safety, sorry but you work for us.
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
Illegal murdering in the name of the country I unfortunately find myself apart of?
No, I do not.
No, I do not.
Communisto
Condottiere
Why dont you git out?
Rashiminos
Fool Prophet
Thinking about it, actually.
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