Does Antifa need to be "punched into submission"?

[Ryika]

Instead of "made up in my head" consider that I read your post in the existing context of the impression you have left through our previous interactions. It will become much clearer, I'm sure.

That's just another way of saying that you've made that up in your head. What you claimed was neither my intent, not the words that were written.

Anyway, now that that's cleared, let's get back to topic.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

That's just another way of saying that you've made that up in your head. What you claimed was neither my intent, not the words that were written.

Anyway, now that that's cleared, let's get back to topic.

I've been on topic all along. It is completely fitting with the topic that you are trying to put all responsibility on me for the impression you have made. I did not see this thread and consider it to have originated at a time point zero, no matter how much you might want to be given a fresh start every time you make a post. Just like you are trying to make out that Antifah sprung up out of vacuum and attacked the innocent right, and I'm not buying your choice of time point zero there either.

 

[Ryika]

Make your case for why you think historical context matters to the question then.

And does the morality change depending on the group? Is...
"A group that mostly consists of right-wing people is having a peaceful protest, then an extremist group is violent towards them. Is it okay for that group to organize and return the political violence?"
...different from...
"A group that mostly consists of left-wing people is having a peaceful protest, then an extremist group is violent towards them. Is it okay for that group to organize and return the political violence?"
...?

 

[civver_764]

Not saying I condone Trump's remarks, but that is not the same thing as organized political violence.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

The president calling for violence isn't organized political violence?

 

[Ajidica]

The president calling for violence isn't organized political violence?

Its only bad when those darn leftists do it, like the KPD. Fighting Nazis in the street is something only Anarchists and Communists do. The DDP and Center Party go "*Tsk Tsk!* Isn't that terrible."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Make your case for why you think historical context matters to the question then.

Because just like me joining this thread with an existing context about you, any group that resorts to violence at a protest does so within an existing context. The right has embraced, endorsed, and practiced violence in support of their intolerance for as long as there has been a right, so for them (and you) to be crybabying about a little violence coming their way is disgusting.

Basically, the left has finally seen enough would be a likely interpretation, since the left is notorious for blanket condemnation of violence by their own even while getting routinely kicked in the head by the right.

 

[civver_764]

The president calling for violence isn't organized political violence?

He didn't say "I want you guys to show up at a left-wing event and start attacking people". And even if he did say that, it still wouldn't be the same as actually doing it like Antifa are.

 

[Ryika]

Because just like me joining this thread with an existing context about you, any group that resorts to violence at a protest does so within an existing context. The right has embraced, endorsed, and practiced violence in support of their intolerance for as long as there has been a right, so for them (and you) to be crybabying about a little violence coming their way is disgusting.

Basically, the left has finally seen enough would be a likely interpretation, since the left is notorious for blanket condemnation of violence by their own even while getting routinely kicked in the head by the right.

"The left" has itself indulged in more than enough political violence in the past. Being from Germany, the RAF is the most obvious example that comes to mind.

I don't see how it's in any way useful to see this as a "left vs. right" issue anyway though. It's Antifa, a group of extremists, against a part of the right. Or are you seriously in support of the methods that Antifa is using?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

He didn't say "I want you guys to show up at a left-wing event and start attacking people". And even if he did say that, it still wouldn't be the same as actually doing it like Antifa are.

Sure, because when your side is trying to egg each other into something acting surprised and offended that the other side does it is perfectly reasonable.

/sarcasm

 

[Ajidica]

"The left" has itself indulged in more than enough political violence in the past. Being from Germany, the RAF is the most obvious example that comes to mind.

You are thinking about political violence in Germany and the RAF is the group that comes most easily to mind?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"The left" has itself indulged in more than enough political violence in the past. Being from Germany, the RAF is the most obvious example that comes to mind.

I don't see how it's in any way useful to see this as a "left vs. right" issue anyway though. It's Antifa, a group of extremists, against a part of the right. Or are you seriously in support of the methods that Antifa is using?

I seriously couldn't care less. In the US the right has done so much damage, and seems committed to doing so much more, that I would consider it self defense if sensible people banded together and exterminated them.

 

[Bamspeedy]

We have been told bombing just breeds more extremists, but punches and thrown beer bottles is the answer? (fewer fatalities than bombs I guess)

 

[Ryika]

You are thinking about political violence in Germany and the RAF is the group that comes most easily to mind?

You misunderstood my post. The context was "An example of left-wing political violence is easy to give for me, because we have a great example of that happening in our past.", not "The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about political violence in Germany is the RAF!".

I seriously couldn't care less. In the US the right has done so much damage, and seems committed to doing so much more, that I would consider it self defense if sensible people banded together and exterminated them.

Well, then I'm thankful that people with your mindset are forced into groups like Antifa, and don't play an actual role in the political landscape.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We have been told bombing just breeds more extremists, but punches and thrown beer bottles is the answer? (fewer fatalities than bombs I guess)

Problem is that we've been told that non-violence is the answer to the right for what...three generations? Four? And yet every advancement made they have fought, violently, and had to be defeated violently for any progress to be made. The evidence appears to be in on this one.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, then I'm thankful that people with your mindset are forced into groups like Antifa, and don't play an actual role in the political landscape.

I'm not in any group. People with my mindset on violence do play significant roles in the political landscape, but they mostly play for the right.

 

[Berzerker]

Antifa movements has been coopted by black bloc anarchists really. The recent surge of clashes just reminds me of football hooligans who would regularly organize team brawls on dirt roads with each other. (really nasty stuff when you have a hundred guys go at each other with pipes, boxers and everything blunt really) I guess this is the American version.

I like us better several million years ago before discovering the monolith

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I like us better several million years ago before discovering the monolith

That would be when the apes went psychotic.

 

[Berzerker]

Not saying I condone Trump's remarks, but that is not the same thing as organized political violence.

people started getting attacked at his rallies after he repeatedly endorsed violence

I'm amazed he didn't get charged with inciting violence

 

[Mobfire]

Problem is that we've been told that non-violence is the answer to the right for what...three generations? Four? And yet every advancement made they have fought, violently, and had to be defeated violently for any progress to be made. The evidence appears to be in on this one.

What about all the other countries that have had shifts in the political landscape without violence and extremism? Violence in politics only leads to more violence, til things escalate out of control.