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Does Race exist?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by haroon, May 8, 2019.

  1. Hehehe

    Hehehe Chieftain

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    There are many ways of assessing this, but the simplest is to just ask participants to self-report their drug use, and then drug test them [1][2][3]. There are also other ways of assessing real rates of drug use, such as looking at drug-related emergency room visits and stuff like that, but I don't think we need to go into that.
     
  2. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

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    I work at an ER, there is no shortage of white drug use.

    Your cited studies are cute demonstrations of racial bias studies. Nice work. Obviously considering the sources and there means in which they did the studies and the social structure in which these studies are done under I will take it with a large grain of salt that black people are just liars as you insinuate here.

    Considering my past debating you on this, your "pet" topic, I'm going to say you should look real hard in the mirror about your motives in life and why you find this topic to be so important its about the only one you ever comment on. I know what you are even if you are in denial over it.
     
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  3. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I cannot easily think of a way to determine the 'true' level of drug usage among a population. It's going to be a difficult piece of evidence to find. As well, arrests won't track linearly with usage. You expect them to be on some type of hyperbolic curve.
     
  4. Hehehe

    Hehehe Chieftain

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    So every study that disagrees with you is racist, and every study which is racist is automatically wrong? So like a true zealot, you've already decided that reality doesn't matter to you? Also, since you seem to misunderstand complex studies, let me be clear here: drug users are a minority, of which only a part of them are lying about their habits. It in no way reflects on all black people.
    Your past debating? You mean when I blew your out of the water by reading your own sources to you?

    As for the rest of the stuff, this just seems like a roundabout way of calling me a racist. People like you seem adamant about pushing mass immigration from the third world, despite the fact that it's been disastrous by any objective measure. If you really think that none of this matters, just agree to my policy proposals and we can drop this. If, however, you think that it's an important topic, well, then let us talk it through.
     
  5. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Policy proposals?
     
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  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    1 what are you measures?
    2 how has immigration been "disastrous"?
    3 for whom has immigration been "disastrous"?
     
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  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    This might not matter. The better statistic would be the number of bad-faith stop and seizure .
     
  8. Hehehe

    Hehehe Chieftain

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    Stop mass immigration from the third world.

    On average, third world immigrants are a fiscal net drain, and they commit more crime than the native population*.

    *Some caveats may apply in the US, where certain segments of the native population commit a disproportionate amount of crime

    We've reached disagreement bedrock, huh? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  9. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    So.. You don't explain your measures for why mass immigration is bad, the only talking point you manage is "fiscal drain" and "crime" (without posting any sources), and you don't specifiy a country you're talking about. Thanks for the worthless post and the reminder that there is absolutely no point ever replying to you.
     
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  10. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    • Infracted for flaming
    like Estenbonrober stated, most probably he is just a racist in disguised.

    "I'm not a racist, but...."

    Moderator Action: Overtly calling someone a racist is flaming (as well as trolling) and is unacceptable. You may think it, but please don't post it as it adds nothing to the discussion and just causes hard feelings. --LM
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2019
  11. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    As far as I understand, this issue related to immigration politics, not "races".
    Countries like Canada have huge number of immigrants and mostly benefit from them.
    Whereas problems in EU are mostly related not to immigrants per se, but to refugees from the countries recently democratized by the US.
     
  12. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    The answer of this can be yes or no, I believe you agree that many immigrant suffered racism at least to some degree. And most of the narration that is used against the immigrant have a racist tone in it (even though under the disguised of "I'm not a racist, but..."), like, protecting the local culture and native people (like the one from the Angst's thread) etc etc
     
  13. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It becomes important to not conflate immigrants with refugees. An immigrant policy has to be carried under strategic thinking. A refugee policy is part of humanitarian treaties
     
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  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I mean, I guess, if you're looking for excuses to keep people out of your country...
     
  15. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    But aren't those two are actually different in definition and priority?
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    All depends on what you want to do. The distinction in this context appears to be a way to create a class of people whom the far-right can be "right" about, at least in principle. It's a way of saying "oh their analysis is reasonable for immigrants, just not when they try to apply it to refugees" which I obviously disagree with completely.

    My own view is that the actual distinction between immigrant and refugee is already sliding into irrelevance as more and more stated become "failed states" with constant slow-burn violence (ie, the situation in much of Latin America today) while we're only seeing the beginning of the disruptions that will be wrought by global warming that will begin to make "refugees" out of a significant chunk of the world's population.

    One issue is that the framework of the "refugee" in the humanitarian treaties that were mentioned was created for the circumstances surrounding World War II and the Holocaust, they are not necessarily easy to generalize outside of that context.
     
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  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Not really. If a strategic case can be made for open borders, it's still part of an immigration policy. Refugee policy is a very different thing. The only similarity us that both groups are 'not citizens'.
     
  18. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    I was talking about immigrants impact on economy. Whether immigrants suffer from racism in particular country or not is a separate issue.
     
  19. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    I agree with you they are both different, however under wrong intention these differences can be politicized for further supporting policies that scrutinized and restricted the immigrant in inhumanely different level. When that narration already normalized and accepted, the refugee will be the next easy target.
     
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  20. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I don't know. In Canada, I find that many of our people use immigration based rhetoric when talking about us helping with the refugee crisis.

    People conflate the two concepts, I think it's an error
     
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