Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Voidwalkin]

The margins in swing states are 1-4%. The majority of white people voted for Trump. I think the anti-woke surge, which is connected to xenophobia and the unkosher "r" and "s" words, is a good explanation.

As you're probably aware, I do think it mattered, I just don't think fear and hate are huge motivators.

The causes are increasingly often ridiculous, but still fought over with viciousness disproportionate to the stakes. It is possible for activism to fail if it loses respectability in the eyes of the public its support it requires. This has pretty clearly happened, to me. There's a different conception of fairness between the two groups, and they find one another mutually offensive.

I live in a red part of a red state and I haven't seen it resonating for quite some time. Close to a decade. There's little willingness to hear to activists side: credibility is too low. If it's going to be argued that America is irreversibly racist and all the rest, as it turns out, people often don't agree, and resent being cast in a league comparable to absolute villains.

There is real backlash to it. The really feared other, though is most often...the activist.

 

[ThERat]

I am amazed how many people here live in a liberal woke media bubble. The kind of horror scenarios being projected are laughable. Who are the people that created false narratives that have long been debunked, who forced people into lock downs on false premises and threatened people daring to speak up with dire consequences. It was the so called democrats. Who played out Bernie Sanders twice to put up a complete failure in HRC and then Biden (who won due to people not wanting Trump for 4 more years). Who lied to the public about Biden's mental decline? Who then circumvented a proper democratic process of primaries to install the useless puppet Harris?
I quarreled with a democrat just weeks prior to Biden dropping out with him claiming Biden is at its sharpest. These narratives were put up by the oligarchy controlled media and eagerly eaten by a cult like democrat crowd who would not listen to any warnings ad warning signs. If you dared to point out that Harris is kind of brain dead and utterly incompetent as the front runner, you risked being cancelled for good.
The same with wokeness, if you dare question why it should be ok for men to declare themselves female to invade women's protected spaces, you get into real trouble. At the same time, these fanatics would project all their secret wishes onto Trump and his followers.
Meanwhile the average person was pointing to jobs, immigration, inflation, housing and endless support for useless wars as their main concerns. People of color were pointing out that they feel abandoned by democrats. And yet, today I see all the delusion about Trump winning. Anyone with an open mind beyond MSNBC/CNN/etc saw that coming.
Now, if all of you people with melt downs get your act together and stop supporting a party that has long left you instead of the forever voting for the lesser of 2 evils (see where that got you in 16 and 24), it would be a good start.

 

[Gorbles]

As you're probably aware, I do think it mattered, I just don't think fear and hate are huge motivators.

There is real backlash to it. The really feared other, though is most often...the activist.

So fear . . . is a motivator? Or fear isn't a motivator, and you just really wanted to say that activists (of some random type applicable to a red part of a red state, demographically) are fearsome in some way? Do you see how inconsistent this need to blame the "woke" for everything is?

I mean, of course, you don't. But it's funny that you'd have more time for the kind of inane argument like the one I'm quoting below, than anything you perceive as this kind of "other".

Who are the people that created false narratives that have long been debunked, who forced people into lock downs on false premises and threatened people daring to speak up with dire consequences.

You obtained this talking point from a media bubble of your own alignment.

 

[Sarin]

Frankly I think the small group of people who selected Kamala selected her so she would lose. They could have gone with anyone. She was terrible. You couldn't do worse. In fact, you didn't do worse in the 2020 primary. I think they wanted her to lose. There's some very real signs that the economy is in a precarious position. Egregiously precarious. Now, if you're the type of person who consumes the sort of media who would lead you to believe Kamala wasn't a horrible choice and borderline idiot with a clear substance abuse problem, then you'll think I'm crazy, and that's OK. Not here to convince anyone. But I do think that conservatives should be cautious about gloating because they might have just won 4 years in office and lost the next quarter century's worth of elections when they're holding the bag as the house of cards collapses, which I do fully expect to happen during this upcoming presidential term.

Especially considering how much power have Trump and Reps aggregated, this is...honestly a serious cope. If anything, it'll cost them four, maybe eight years at most, but the pendulum will swing back and electorate has very short memory, as proven by this.

Keeping silent while the party doubles down on the rhetoric and actions that alienated Dems from the crucial electorate in past decade, hoping it's part of some master plan, is the worst thing that the common people can do. Confronting the party leadership and demanding the changes would be good. Outright forming a third party with enough people dissatisfied by both sides to claim a few seats in both chambers, breaking the two-party system, would be even better.

But I predict that neither will happen. The Dem voters will go into defensive, siege mentality, doubling down on supporting Democrats even as they become more out of touch and deranged, closing themselves more into a bubble. And the few that DO break out just won't be enough to effect some kind of change.

 

[JPetroski]

Especially considering how much power have Trump and Reps aggregated, this is...honestly a serious cope. If anything, it'll cost them four, maybe eight years at most, but the pendulum will swing back and electorate has very short memory, as proven by this.

Keeping silent while the party doubles down on the rhetoric and actions that alienated Dems from the crucial electorate in past decade, hoping it's part of some master plan, is the worst thing that the common people can do. Confronting the party leadership and demanding the changes would be good. Outright forming a third party with enough people dissatisfied by both sides to claim a few seats in both chambers, breaking the two-party system, would be even better.

But I predict that neither will happen. The Dem voters will go into defensive, siege mentality, doubling down on supporting Democrats even as they become more out of touch and deranged, closing themselves more into a bubble. And the few that DO break out just won't be enough to effect some kind of change.

Oh I'm not coping; I'm actually afraid to be correct. I'm very happy with the election results. I just think we're generally screwed and that it's very obvious though extremely under reported. The meme stock issue has not been sorted yet. Banks are quietly collapsing. Debt has skyrocketed. Very problematic happenings are occurring with bonds. I'm expecting a wild rollercoaster the next few years. I think the installation of Cackles as the candidate was a very shrewd move. Guess we'll see!

 

[Gorbles]

Oh I'm not coping; I'm actually afraid to be correct. I'm very happy with the election results. I just think we're generally screwed and that it's very obvious though extremely under reported. The meme stock issue has not been sorted yet. Banks are quietly collapsing. Debt has skyrocketed. Very problematic happenings are occurring with bonds. I'm expecting a wild rollercoaster the next few years. I think the installation of Cackles as the candidate was a very shrewd move. Guess we'll see!

And you think actual solutions are forthcoming? For all these problems?

 

[JPetroski]

And you think actual solutions are forthcoming? For all these problems?

No. Emphatically, no. But I would have told you that regardless of who won.

 

[Senethro]

I am amazed how many people here live in a liberal woke media bubble. The kind of horror scenarios being projected are laughable. Who are the people that created false narratives that have long been debunked, who forced people into lock downs on false premises and threatened people daring to speak up with dire consequences. It was the so called democrats. Who played out Bernie Sanders twice to put up a complete failure in HRC and then Biden (who won due to people not wanting Trump for 4 more years). Who lied to the public about Biden's mental decline? Who then circumvented a proper democratic process of primaries to install the useless puppet Harris?
I quarreled with a democrat just weeks prior to Biden dropping out with him claiming Biden is at its sharpest. These narratives were put up by the oligarchy controlled media and eagerly eaten by a cult like democrat crowd who would not listen to any warnings ad warning signs. If you dared to point out that Harris is kind of brain dead and utterly incompetent as the front runner, you risked being cancelled for good.
The same with wokeness, if you dare question why it should be ok for men to declare themselves female to invade women's protected spaces, you get into real trouble. At the same time, these fanatics would project all their secret wishes onto Trump and his followers.
Meanwhile the average person was pointing to jobs, immigration, inflation, housing and endless support for useless wars as their main concerns. People of color were pointing out that they feel abandoned by democrats. And yet, today I see all the delusion about Trump winning. Anyone with an open mind beyond MSNBC/CNN/etc saw that coming.
Now, if all of you people with melt downs get your act together and stop supporting a party that has long left you instead of the forever voting for the lesser of 2 evils (see where that got you in 16 and 24), it would be a good start.

A nice demonstration for some of the bewildered that things don't need to be true or rational in order for them to be factors in voting choice.

 

[Gorbles]

No. Emphatically, no. But I would have told you that regardless of who won.

I don't personally see much to be happy about then, regardless of whose team won. Ah well.

 

[ThERat]

You obtained this talking point from a media bubble of your own alignment.

Well, I was referring specifically to for example the Russia story about election interference which was entirely made up by HRC's team and has long been debunked but is still used. Also, when talking about Covid, I remember how Joe Rogan was ridiculed for speaking about boosting your immune system and taking ivermectin, which was followed by an insane campaign to make Rogan look like a complete idiot. These are only a few examples that show that 'misinformation' isn't a monopoly of the right.

 

[Gorbles]

Well, I was referring specifically to for example the Russia story about election interference which was entirely made up by HRC's team and has long been debunked but is still used. Also, when talking about Covid, I remember how Joe Rogan was ridiculed for speaking about boosting your immune system and taking ivermectin, which was followed by an insane campaign to make Rogan look like a complete idiot. These are only a few examples that show that 'misinformation' isn't a monopoly of the right.

Yes, you are still getting these talking points from a media bubble. I don't really want to debate any of them, I'm just illustrating the point.

 

[Voidwalkin]

So fear . . . is a motivator? Or fear isn't a motivator, and you just really wanted to say that activists (of some random type applicable to a red part of a red state, demographically) are fearsome in some way? Do you see how inconsistent this need to blame the "woke" for everything is?

I mean, of course, you don't. But it's funny that you'd have more time for the kind of inane argument like the one I'm quoting below, than anything you perceive as this kind of "other".

I don't see a problem with inconsistency here. The number of voters mean there will be no sole reason that can be ascribed to them. Attempts will be made to that effect, but I won't.

I'm sure that there were Trump votes cast out of what I'd be content to call racism. And sexism. I am also sure that there were Trump votes cast because of an ideological opposition to some of the core concepts of modern activism. You'll probably want me to define those core concepts, so, for the sake of being concise, I'll say opposition to the principle that American society is irredeemably racist and sexist, with all social structures examined and deconstruction a necessity. That actually is feared; in no small measure because the activists are usually willing to cause reputation damage to advance their cause, often despite a lack of consensus the structure or belief is racist/sexist to begin with, presumably in belief the ends justify the means.

There are still many people here who don't believe in seeing the group, but the individual, who are distressed by efforts to rebalance society on basis of group membership. The hard individualism of America has buy-in across many sections.

 

[aelf]

I'll say opposition to the principle that American society is irredeemably racist and sexist, with all social structures examined and deconstruction a necessity. That actually is feared; in no small measure because the activists are usually willing to cause reputation damage to advance their cause, often despite a lack of consensus the structure or belief is racist/sexist to begin with, presumably in belief the ends justify the means.

Opposition to what is mostly a bogeyman. So, yeah, it's all about fear built on lies with a lot of anti-woke sentiment thrown in.

 

[Gorbles]

I don't see a problem with inconsistency here. The number of voters mean there will be no sole reason that can be ascribed to them. Attempts will be made to that effect, but I won't.

We were talking about motivators, not "sole reasons". You're the one who claimed "the really feared other" is "most often...the activist".

often despite a lack of consensus the structure or belief is racist/sexist to begin with, presumably in belief the ends justify the means.

I feel like your individual position on said consensus is the driver here. Or a driver, at least.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

If I were a tinfoil hat kinda person I'd say Democrats aren't even trying.

1. Don't even challenge the oldest president in history
2. then at last minute sub in the least popular VP in modern history who polled 3% in primary (in 2020)
3. Keep talking about how nuts Trump is and give him all the attention

What could go wrong?

It really doesn't feel like Dems learned much in last eight years. Maybe by 2028...

I predicted a lack of a primary for the Democratic candidate would at least be a liability; glad to see others agree.

When this development first surfaced, I was informed that a [another] primary was not necessary because Biden chose Harris to be his stand-in for a whole new term and that decision had to be respected by primary voters.

 

[Theov]

Biden ran a campaign appealing to moderate conservatives and independents and beat Trump. You're being politically correct as to why Trump won, but I'm calling it out for what it is: Too many Americans are either incredibly ignorant or have political beliefs that are hateful and/or prejudiced. "At least I'm not a fascist against democracy" should get nearly 100 percent of the vote when the other guy is a fascist against democracy in concrete terms, with an abundance of evidence to prove it. A law abiding criminal prosectuer running against a felon and con man. If people were even remotely reasonable that campaign strategy would have worked with Harris winning in a landslide.

It might possibly be, maybe, that half of the Americans are hateful, prejudiced, fascists, against democracy and/or love criminals.
Now (and hear me out, because it might sound crazy) it could possibly be that most Americans see the inflation in their wallets and bank accounts, see the crime rates go up and see the Democratic party with a mumbling stumbling Joe Biden for 3.5 years and then Kamala who says "yeah I'll fix that, y'know, that thing that we didn't fix for the last 4 years."
Nah, that can't be it.

It's time to hold people accountable for voting for Trump, in my opinion. Especially when it wasn't just the electoral college but even the popular vote he won comfortably.

Can you elaborate on this - what do you mean?

 

[KaibaCorp]

My stab at an autopsy:

1. Voters just vote based on "the economy" even though their understanding is either short-sighted, or completely ignorant and child-like.
2. Voters don't know, don't care and have no interest in civics. A lot of the country seemed unhappy about Jan 6th at first. Then the fog of time blurred what it was, how it was received etc. Now it's looked at like some unimportant event woke libs won't stop crying about.
3. Stop running women.
4. If Dems want to win in 2028 - they've gotta step up their social media bite-sized, brain-rot fluency. Get more empty-headed but meme-fluent figureheads to run, and then have a competent administration behind them to do the actual work.

 

[amadeus]

I don’t think Biden chose to withdraw, I think he got kicked out. He was adamant about staying in the race until one weekend when he totally changed course and all but disappeared.

 

[Theov]

My stab at an autopsy:

1. Voters just vote based on "the economy" even though their understanding is either short-sighted, or completely ignorant and child-like.

Yeah, that take is not short-sighted at all. There are of course more reasons why one would or would not vote for a candidate.
Though the economy is a big one, of course.

2. Voters don't know, don't care and have no interest in civics. A lot of the country seemed unhappy about Jan 6th at first. Then the fog of time blurred what it was, how it was received etc. Now it's looked at like some unimportant event woke libs won't stop crying about.

Maybe people forgot because right after that came covid and the BLM "peaceful protests".

3. Stop running women.

That's sexist.

4. If Dems want to win in 2028 - they've gotta step up their social media bite-sized, brain-rot fluency. Get more empty-headed but meme-fluent figureheads to run, and then have a competent administration behind them to do the actual work.

See, this disdain for the people is what makes most people throw up in their mouth.

 

[KaibaCorp]

1. Most voters' understanding of "the economy": Trump low prices Kamala high prices.
2. That was before not after, I think your Twitter timeline was sorted to Oldest First for a second there.
3. You said it not me.
4. It's not disdain, it's a different love language.