Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Miniskirt]

One thing I newer understood about the american mindset is this focus on self defense and the tools to do so. If your country is so dangerous that the average person needs to even consider self defense at all the answer is NOT to give them guns but to fix your society until it is no longer so dangerous.

"some" Americans, dear. Not "the american mindset". At best "the mindset of some Americans".

 

[PPQ_Purple]

"some" Americans, dear. Not "the american mindset". At best "the mindset of some Americans".

American as in originating in and most prominent on in america. Just like Coca Cola is an american company.

Frankly, its an attitude and way of thinking that you just newer see in a civilized country anywhere else in the world. At least not outside of what are considered fringe groups of crazies.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hillary got somewhere around 74 million votes,

Hillary got nowhere near that many votes. Hillary got the most votes in 2016 with 65 million votes. But your larger point stands, that if just getting alot of votes makes a person deserving of respect on that basis, then pretty much any major party's candidate for POTUS is deserving of a comparable level of respect on that same basis. However, its doubtful that folks who make such a claim, would extend the same amount of respect towards a candidate they oppose, simply on the basis of how many votes they received.

So the argument that Trump deserves respect simply because he got a lot of votes is a pretty weak/flawed argument. FTR Biden got 81 million votes, the most in US history, so by the above referenced flawed standard, Biden would be the POTUS most deserving of respect.

 

[Cutlass]

Mentally ill people should have the right to defend themselves from all the murderers and rapists that the liberals have allowed to overrun our southern border. Just like anybody else. The truth is that the left wants to disarm us so that they can take away our liberties because they think they are better than us and want to be in control. Just exactly the same thinking as Xi Jinping.

Nullifying big government regulations is God's work. Bless him.

Everyone fighting for liberty in America is a liberal. Everyone trying to take away liberties is a Republican. Just another lie the right tells. The Republicans hates government because they hate God, until they can use big government to do Satan's will. A then they love big government.

 

[Miniskirt]

American as in originating in and most prominent on in america.

Yeah like the purple people mind set. Why does this site allow people to not put their home country or region in our user profiles? What are people hiding? It is shady and suspicious. Crass is crass, even if not capitalized, but I drink Pepsi, never Coke.

Back on topic, I have skimmed this entire thread and have seen very little regarding the lady vote. It is discounted here and decidedly not pro Trump.

 

[Cutlass]

The Trump voters.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It is discounted here and decidedly not pro Trump.

And will be utterly decisive in the upcoming election.

Cutlass' picture reminds me of an experience I found amusing. There's an intersection here where Trump supporters display their support. Every previous time I've driven by, my attention has gone to the flags, trying to read what was on them (besides the simple F*** Biden). The most recent time I was stalled at the light, so I had time to notice more. I counted the flags. There were 34. Then I counted the supporters. There were two.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The Trump voters.

I bet most think this happened in a 'red' state. It was Connecticut.

Gathering in Mystic included man in KKK robe, witnesses said

Mystic – Police Saturday afternoon responded to a rally near the Olde Mistick Village, where witnesses said a crowd of supporters for former President Donald Trump gathered, along with a hooded individual dressed in Ku Klux Klan robes.

www.theday.com

 

[Lexicus]

I bet most think this happened in a 'red' state. It was Connecticut.

Gathering in Mystic included man in KKK robe, witnesses said

Mystic – Police Saturday afternoon responded to a rally near the Olde Mistick Village, where witnesses said a crowd of supporters for former President Donald Trump gathered, along with a hooded individual dressed in Ku Klux Klan robes.

www.theday.com

I actually assumed Cutlass had taken that photo himself, presumably in a blue state

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Yeah like the purple people mind set. Why does this site allow people to not put their home country or region in our user profiles? What are people hiding? It is shady and suspicious. Crass is crass, even if not capitalized, but I drink Pepsi, never Coke.

This might surprise you but some of us value our privacy.

 

[Core Imposter]

Literally, I grew up in a world where we slept with our windows and doors open. Kids were free range with no way to locate them. It was safe and that's because it was a world shaped by conservative Christian values.

The fact that we all have to bear arms for basic security is a testament to the world that liberal values has given us.

And if we give up our arms those same liberals will seize all of our remaining liberty.

We will fight. But it is never our first choice.

 

[danjuno]

Literally, I grew up in a world where we slept with our windows and doors open. Kids were free range with no way to locate them.

Because the media wasn't constantly revving up hysteria about crime, which has been in almost constant decline since the 90's.

It was safe and that's because it was a world shaped by conservative Christian values.

Implying Christianity hasn't been the source of systematic violence and oppression like every other major organized religion.

The truth is that the left wants to disarm us so that they can take away our liberties because they think they are better than us and want to be in control.

And if we give up our arms those same liberals will seize all of our remaining liberty.

Aaand here we go again with conflating liberals and leftists. Leftists (not Soc Dems like AOC) don't care about gun control.

 

[Core Imposter]

Because the media wasn't constantly revving up hysteria about crime, which has been in almost constant decline since the 90's.

Implying Christianity hasn't been the source of systematic violence and oppression like every other major organized religion.


Aaand here we go again with conflating liberals and leftists. Leftists (not Soc Dems like AOC) don't care about gun control.

You are a truth denier. But in fairness, I grew up in the 50s and 60s so you probably have no frame of reference for my statement, it would seem as you reference a recent decade.

And no, Christianity hasn't been the source of woe but the wellspring of civilization. The. Wellspring.
Moderator Action: Warned for trolling. The_J

I admit I make little distinction between leftists and liberals. All skunks and polecats to me. (now that's a joke, I must say because left of center is no sense of humor)

 

[Samson]

You are a truth denier. But in fairness, I grew up in the 50s and 60s so you probably have no frame of reference for my statement, it would seem as you reference a recent decade.

If you are so confident about truth how about some numbers. I shall make a start:

If anything has gone up it is neglect, and I put that more on cutting benefits than some sort of moral decay.

 

[Lexicus]

I'd argue that Trump's mishandling of COVID, specifically the discontinuation of the Obama anti-pandemic procedures/policies, the endless attempts to downplay the disease, and discourage efforts to limit and contain the spread, peddling of misinformation and mistrust towards the medical and scientific community attempting to develop ways to stem the pandemic... directly influencing the leaders nationwide and worldwide who followed his example... and all the resultant needless deaths it caused, not just in the US, but globally... was worse than the Iraq invasion.

EDIT: I'll add that another reason it was worse, was because of his motives. The reason Trump mishandled COVID so badly, was because he was completely incompetent and all he cared about, was that taking it seriously might make him look bad politically, ie damage his chances of re-election. So he fostered a global pandemic that killed millions of people and caused all sorts of additional damage... economic, educational, psychological, etc., just because he didn't want to take the political hit. At least Baby Bush was motivated by a desire to secure the sources of oil to improve the US economy, enrich US corporations and allies and strengthen the US status as a global hegemon... certainly not necessarily a non-evil or noble goal, but it was at minimum, about something besides just personal benefit/aggrandizement.

In terms of effects, there is no question that covid is worse than the invasion of Iraq.

However, I disagree with your analysis of what caused the covid-19 pandemic to be as bad as it was. I suspect that the lab leak origin theory is probably true, and this makes it difficult for me to imagine that those anti-pandemic measures you mentioned, which IIRC were basically designed to try to stop another SARS outbreak, would have been helpful in this case. I believe covid was already spreading basically unchecked in the winter of 2019.

Once we arrive at March 2020, I believe that structural factors would have made it virtually impossible for the US to adequately address the pandemic. This was a function of the power that capital has in American society, much more than of the President. It turns out that it is not profitable to save lives from a deadly global pandemic - who knew? But we ran our pandemic policies basically as if it could be profitable to save lives from a deadly global pandemic, and paid in millions of lives, bringing to mind Marx's line about how capital lives like a vampire, by sucking life, and lives the more the more life it sucks.

I certainly agree that having Trump in there was bad in terms of covid. Trump is worse than replacement value on something like covid, or any other kind of crisis or anything really that requires decisionmaking from the President - but by contrast with the covid-19 pandemic, which was an event that affected the entire globe and was dealt with by every country, some better and some worse, the Iraq War was a crime planned and perpetrated by a relatively tiny cabal, literally a cabal, of people in the Bush administration. There is a moral difference there beyond the impacts.

 

[Voidwalkin]

the Iraq War was a crime planned and perpetrated by a relatively tiny cabal, literally a cabal, of people in the Bush administration

Still shocking how small that group of people that put this into motion was.

 

[GenMarshall]

And no, Christianity hasn't been the source of woe but the wellspring of civilization. The. Wellspring.

The following civilizations would like to have a word with you (that I know off the top of my head): Chinese, Japanese, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Persian, The various Babylonian/Assyrian Empires, The Roman Republic/Empire, Ancient Greece, and more that would end up having a bunch of DLCs for any modern Civilization Games past Civ1.

I admit I make little distinction between leftists and liberals. All skunks and polecats to me. (now that's a joke, I must say because left of center is no sense of humor)

There is a distinction between the two groups. Other than leftist viewing liberals with disdain and animosity. Leftists want a complete abolishment of the economic system of capitalism and replacing it with another economic system. Either through gradual reforms or, in the case with far-left politics, through a violent overthrow through a revolution and accelerationism.

Hell, Leftists aren’t amicable towards Social Democrats and don't consider them "leftist" (Yet SocDems do hover around the center-left quadrant the last I checked on the Political Compass and the Wikipedia article I've looked up in) because SocDems want to reform and humanize capitalism and take a gradualist, reformist, and democratic approach to achieving socialism. Tankies ESPECIALLY loathe SocDems because they reject wholesale the idea of a violent revolution, authoritarianism, and accelerationism and Tankies themselves hate the idea of a representative and participatory democracy (Not to mention haven't gotten over the whole kerfuffle in Germany in the 1920s).

As frustrating as it is that I’m considered a “right-wing chud Gamergater Trump QAnon cultist” around these parts, I do know the difference between Liberals and Leftists. The attitude of "make little distinction between leftists and liberals" is no different than the attitude of the terminally online leftist on Twitter/X/Reddit that conflates your average milquetoast center-right conservative with Nazism and Fascism.

 

[Cutlass]

Literally, I grew up in a world where we slept with our windows and doors open. Kids were free range with no way to locate them. It was safe and that's because it was a world shaped by conservative Christian values.

The fact that we all have to bear arms for basic security is a testament to the world that liberal values has given us.

And if we give up our arms those same liberals will seize all of our remaining liberty.

We will fight. But it is never our first choice.

You are a truth denier. But in fairness, I grew up in the 50s and 60s so you probably have no frame of reference for my statement, it would seem as you reference a recent decade.

And no, Christianity hasn't been the source of woe but the wellspring of civilization. The. Wellspring.

I admit I make little distinction between leftists and liberals. All skunks and polecats to me. (now that's a joke, I must say because left of center is no sense of humor)

@Voidwalkin This is what fascism looks like. And the reason the word is so often applied to the American right. Tell any lie necessary to blame all their problems on others. And then suggest they have to use force against the enemy they made up for actions that they made up.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I bet most think this happened in a 'red' state. It was Connecticut.

Gathering in Mystic included man in KKK robe, witnesses said

Mystic – Police Saturday afternoon responded to a rally near the Olde Mistick Village, where witnesses said a crowd of supporters for former President Donald Trump gathered, along with a hooded individual dressed in Ku Klux Klan robes.

www.theday.com

I saw a very similar gathering yesterday in Massachusetts. A small number of Trump supporters standing near a highway onramp/intersection with tons of signs and flags, way more flags and signs than actual people. Most people driving by just ignored them, but I did see one guy drive by and beep/wave to them.

 

[amadeus]

If anything has gone up it is neglect, and I put that more on cutting benefits than some sort of moral decay.

At the risk of joining the conversation, I will speculate that better reporting could account for much of the increase. To my knowledge, this explains the trend in recent years of school bullying in this country to have gone up, though the incidence rate is also suspected of having either not changed or declined.

Just my two ¥!