Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Birdjaguar]

Literally, I grew up in a world where we slept with our windows and doors open. Kids were free range with no way to locate them. It was safe and that's because it was a world shaped by conservative Christian values.

The fact that we all have to bear arms for basic security is a testament to the world that liberal values has given us.

And if we give up our arms those same liberals will seize all of our remaining liberty.

We will fight. But it is never our first choice.

You are a truth denier. But in fairness, I grew up in the 50s and 60s so you probably have no frame of reference for my statement, it would seem as you reference a recent decade.

And no, Christianity hasn't been the source of woe but the wellspring of civilization. The. Wellspring.

I admit I make little distinction between leftists and liberals. All skunks and polecats to me. (now that's a joke, I must say because left of center is no sense of humor)

Hmmm...I grew up in the 50s and 60s and fully understand the freedom we had a children. It was nice. You are wrong about the reasons though. In 1953 the US had 160 million people. By 1993 we had 260 million. Today we have over 330 million. The white-ruled world of the 1950s changed in the 60s and in NC, like many places, the racists refused to change and fueled a more open conflict between races. Guns were scarce, drugs were scare. Media was radio (just music) and 3 TV channels plus magazines. Cars were expensive and most people had only one if they had any. Then in the late 60s and 70s, the boomers, your generation and mine, ripped the old world order to pieces and replaced the rigid structure of American society with individual freedom and choice. Of course, the most conservative Christians hated such freedom. Remember Jesse Helms and his TV commentaries? I do. Southern Christians have been a force for divisiveness ever since. Their fear of integration, their fear of sharing communities with non whites, built walls that need guns to defend and the arms race began. Christian values meant white Christian values, no blacks allowed. At the very heart of our very divided society lies the conservative Christian racism. Almost everything that plagues us today has its roots in the failure of white Christians in the US to be Christian.

 

[Miniskirt]

This might surprise you but some of us value our privacy.

I have no idea what this comment means. It's creepy to post comments putting down a region but not making it know what your own region is. A private obnoxious troll is an obnoxious troll.

 

[Strong Reaction]

Hillary got nowhere near that many votes. Hillary got the most votes in 2016 with 65 million votes. But your larger point stands, that if just getting alot of votes makes a person deserving of respect on that basis, then pretty much any major party's candidate for POTUS is deserving of a comparable level of respect on that same basis. However, its doubtful that folks who make such a claim, would extend the same amount of respect towards a candidate they oppose, simply on the basis of how many votes they received.

So the argument that Trump deserves respect simply because he got a lot of votes is a pretty weak/flawed argument. FTR Biden got 81 million votes, the most in US history, so by the above referenced flawed standard, Biden would be the POTUS most deserving of respect.

Ya I pulled that number out of my arse. But yes the number of votes are bit subjective and its hard to draw true meaning from it. My thought is that why is the GOP so afraid of Trump, i.e. dump him and move in a different direction, because he got x amount of votes and is the former president, what do those numbers really mean. Hillary had 65 million votes, yet its not like there are 65 million die hard Clinton supporters many of the votes are probably lesser of two evils votes.

 

[Zardnaar]

The following civilizations would like to have a word with you (that I know off the top of my head): Chinese, Japanese, Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Persian, The various Babylonian/Assyrian Empires, The Roman Republic/Empire, Ancient Greece, and more that would end up having a bunch of DLCs for any modern Civilization Games past Civ1.


There is a distinction between the two groups. Other than leftist viewing liberals with disdain and animosity. Leftists want a complete abolishment of the economic system of capitalism and replacing it with another economic system. Either through gradual reforms or, in the case with far-left politics, through a violent overthrow through a revolution and accelerationism.

Hell, Leftists aren’t amicable towards Social Democrats and don't consider them "leftist" (Yet SocDems do hover around the center-left quadrant the last I checked on the Political Compass and the Wikipedia article I've looked up in) because SocDems want to reform and humanize capitalism and take a gradualist, reformist, and democratic approach to achieving socialism. Tankies ESPECIALLY loathe SocDems because they reject wholesale the idea of a violent revolution, authoritarianism, and accelerationism and Tankies themselves hate the idea of a representative and participatory democracy (Not to mention haven't gotten over the whole kerfuffle in Germany in the 1920s).

As frustrating as it is that I’m considered a “right-wing chud Gamergater Trump QAnon cultist” around these parts, I do know the difference between Liberals and Leftists. The attitude of "make little distinction between leftists and liberals" is no different than the attitude of the terminally online leftist on Twitter/X/Reddit that conflates your average milquetoast center-right conservative with Nazism and Fascism.

Technically speaking anyone who's not an authoritarian participating in democracy is s liberal.

The left is a collection of beliefs ranging from communism to left of center.

The right are the opponenys other leftists can be the enemy. A big part of tgat in various socusl democracies achieved Communisms goals. Which obsoletes communists theory. Communism cant ve achieved as a democracy (people might vote for something else) and has to resort to authoritarianism (which isn't true communusm).

Those goals arguably didn't last as people ended up voting for different things but the lasted longer than communist regimes did so go figure.

The right also ranges from tge center right through to fascists and Nazis. Horseshoe theory the ideology is different the methods are similar (propaganda, alternative facts, secret police etc).

 

[Narz]

If anything has gone up it is neglect, and I put that more on cutting benefits than some sort of moral decay.

Destruction of community. We weren't meant to raise kids in isolated little boxes and TV and tablets no substitute for neighbors you can trust so you don't actually have to deal w your own kids 24/7.

I dealt w neglect but now, as a parent, I do have some compassion for how overwhelmed most parents are.

Let's also remember in Core's idealic 1950s a family could afford a house on one salary.

As you say society has gotten safer but also lonelier and more divided w the future very unclear.

Hence the rise in clinging to the cargo cult of 'restoring' our glory days (maga), if only we got rid of scapegoats a-z.

Objective crime has decreased but anxiety has massively increased and anxiety drives people to believe crazy things. At the end of the day subjective experience is what matters in life which is why fear keeps selling and selling, because it resonates.

 

[choxorn]

Why does this site allow people to not put their home country or region in our user profiles?

Go to Your account -> Settings -> Account Details and Location is one of them, it's visibly printed on all our posts below our profile pics.

Literally, I grew up in a world where we slept with our windows and doors open. Kids were free range with no way to locate them. It was safe and that's because it was a world shaped by conservative Christian values.

The world is safer now that it was in the past, as everyone's been saying violent crime has been falling for decades. We just stopped letting kids run free and locked our doors because the media preys on fear and likes to make us think we're all at high risk of a violent stranger attacking and robbing/kidnapping/murdering us, which is absolutely not true.

Well that and, the kids stopped playing outside because we paved over all our countryside and replaced it with strip malls, fast food restaurants, and gas stations and cops and security guards harass any group of kids without an adult present (in the name of "preventing gang activity"), so they have no choice but to stay inside and play games on their phones and computers all the time.

As frustrating as it is that I’m considered a “right-wing chud Gamergater Trump QAnon cultist” around these parts, I do know the difference between Liberals and Leftists. The attitude of "make little distinction between leftists and liberals" is no different than the attitude of the terminally online leftist on Twitter/X/Reddit that conflates your average milquetoast center-right conservative with Nazism and Fascism.

Buddy, trust me when I say that most of us really don't want to think about you that way, but you uncritically parrot a lot of far-right memes and propaganda you've picked up because it validates your persecution complex and give likes with no comment to a lot of things posted by obvious right-wing chuds like CI in this thread. I'd much rather see you as the social democrat you see yourself as, but when you act more like a chud than a socdem because sometimes people on the left tell you you're being kind of a douche, it gets harder to not see you as a chud.

 

[Gorbles]

Well that and, the kids stopped playing outside because we paved over all our countryside and replaced it with strip malls, fast food restaurants, and gas stations and cops and security guards harass any group of kids without an adult present (in the name of "preventing gang activity"), so they have no choice but to stay inside and play games on their phones and computers all the time.

This is something that doesn't get picked up on as much. Instead of blaming digital devices, blame the destruction of our outside social spaces. Kids adjust, they always have, they always will. They're still trying to, despite McPizzaKing™ buying up all outdoor spaces and branding it with their logo and No Loitering signs.

 

[Samson]

Well that and, the kids stopped playing outside because we paved over all our countryside and replaced it with strip malls, fast food restaurants, and gas stations and cops and security guards harass any group of kids without an adult present (in the name of "preventing gang activity"), so they have no choice but to stay inside and play games on their phones and computers all the time.

I am not convinced it is this as much as the dominance that the motor car has over the streets that exist. I was not playing as early as CoreImposter, but I used to play in the road and they used to in American movies. I do not think kids could do that these days. It is not a question of the absolute miles driven, I looked at graphs and I think the big change in that happened before kids were chased off the street.

Spoiler Car miles per capita :

US UK Sources

 

[Narz]

but when you act more like a chud than a socdem

Definition?

 

[EnglishEdward]

Canibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller

Urban Dictionary: chud

Canibalistic Humanoid Underground Dweller

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[Gorbles]

I am not convinced it is this as much as the dominance that the motor car has over the streets that exist. I was not playing as early as CoreImposter, but I used to play in the road and they used to in American movies. I do not think kids could do that these days. It is not a question of the absolute miles driven, I looked at graphs and I think the big change in that happened before kids were chased off the street.

Spoiler Car miles per capita :

US UK Sources

I played in the street outside as a kid. Doesn't mean I should've done. I lived on a road that was frequently used by speeding cars as it was the shortcut (up / down a hill) between two busy roads. Lots of pets died that way (and I used to have to run to get our cat at the time out of the middle of the road more than once). Thankfully no children that I'm aware of, but I was young, so who knows. Since I left that town, they've put speedbumps all down those kinds of roads.

This is all kinds of anecdotal, but at the same time so is a lot of the reasoning here. Some folks are working backwards from a conclusion, too, which doesn't help (not you, to be clear).

 

[Narz]

Lovely. Maybe let's not troll civgeneral (and ironically prove his point about purity standards)... for like the 80th time.

 

[Arakhor]

Urban Dictionary usually has the worst possible interpretation of a word, but yeah, "chud" is a generic term of abuse.

 

[Gorbles]

Lovely. Maybe let's not troll civgeneral (and ironically prove his point about purity standards)... for like the 80th time.

choxorn was merely using a word GenMarshall used themselves (when referencing what he was called by other posters). Let's not pick and choose, maybe?

 

[JollyRoger]

At nearly every point, the people in positions of power have maintained a double standard for Trump. .

I absolutely agree, He has been excessively coddled by soft booking procedures, delayed trials and sentencing, soft parole conditions, failure to crack down on parole violations, etc.. If you or I had acted as Trump has, they would have locked us away and thrown away the key years ago.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, it seems the Harris campaign is reading my posts here and has responded to the advice I gave a couple of pages back:

The Office of Kamala D. Harris

Learn about Kamala D. Harris's journey as a leader and advocate for the people—from District Attorney to Vice President of the United States. Stay connected with her office and contact Vice President Harris.

kamalaharris.com

 

[Lexicus]

Well that and, the kids stopped playing outside because we paved over all our countryside and replaced it with strip malls, fast food restaurants, and gas stations and cops and security guards harass any group of kids without an adult present (in the name of "preventing gang activity"), so they have no choice but to stay inside and play games on their phones and computers all the time.

This is key, i remember when i was like 13 or 14 a cop drove up on a group of us justing hanging & skateboarding on the street and yelled at us to go home for no reason

 

[Gori the Grey]

This is key, i remember when i was like 13 or 14 a cop drove up on a group of us justing hanging & skateboarding on the street and yelled at us to go home for no reason

This strikes me as crucially important to the full sociological analysis of the situation that Core and Samson between them have submitted for our consideration. In the time since the idyllic 60s, not only has America come to seem dangerous to kids (in a way that, Samson shows, statistically, it is not). But through that same period, kids themselves have come to be regarded as dangerous in a way that I do not think was previously true.

Is it Lord of the Flies that started us down that path? Or that one Star Trek episode that's like it, "And the Children Shall Lead"? Or Clockwork Orange, maybe. But all of those would have been channeling (if also exacerbating) an anxiety that somehow preexisted them. Rise of street gangs?

 

[Lexicus]

In my anecdote, two kids in particular got singled out for special yelling, including one that the cop told to "go back where he came from". Care to guess which races they were?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, racism is a part of it, of course. That too probably makes street gangs (and news coverage of them) the culprit.

Or, more broadly, just the general generational conflict of the sixties. Civil rights protesting. Anti war.