EU Immigrant crime wave a myth

[brennan]

I am obviously talking about some people in Britain, not all of them.

One of my mates is like that. When he starts ranting about immigrants we tell him to shut up. Hope that helps.

How are things over there in Eastern Europe btw?

 

[Till]

Relabeling parts of (former) Eastern Europe instead of addressing the issues and misconceptions that give it a bad name in some circles seems like a good example of political correctness gone awry.

 

[Winner]

Winner, is any country outside the former USSR in Eastern Europe to you?

No.

Which doesn't mean anything since I don't consider Baltic states Eastern European either, despite they were a part of the USSR.

Anyway, if the British insist on calling people from Poland "Eastern Europeans", they're ignorants, especially now when they're members of the EU.

 

[brennan]

So 'Western European' includes all EU members? What if Turkey join? *ducks*

 

[Winner]

So 'Western European' includes all EU members? What if Turkey join? *ducks*

No.

10 chars.

Relabeling parts of (former) Eastern Europe instead of addressing the issues and misconceptions that give it a bad name in some circles seems like a good example of political correctness gone awry.

Oh I'd love if people stopped thinking about Eastern Europe (I mean the real Eastern Europe) as if it was some African hellhole. I'd love if people stopped thinking that Ukraine has made no progress in the last 10 years or that Russia outside Moscow is totally poor.

It's on my list of priorities right after persuading the Western Europeans to use the correct geographical terms.

It's sooo American to ignore geography and be proud of it...

 

[Sharwood]

Okay, back on topic, this is interesting. I've heard my whole life that after the White Australia policy was repealed, crime skyrocketed, particularly assaults and sexual assaults, and have never been sure whether to believe it or not. On the one hand, I sincerely doubt that most immigrants are criminals, and the few that are are likely roughly equal to the amount of non-immigrants who are. On the other hand, ethnic clashes, which I know existed - and still do - could well account for an increase in crime.

Does anyone have any stats for Australia during that period? Arwon, I'm looking in your direction.

 

[Truronian]

Gee, yes, it's wrong when I don't want to be asociated with parts of the world I don't belong to and I have very little in common with. British would certaily love to be asociated with, say, Pakistan

Australia has little in common with Chile but that doesn't mean it's not in the southern hemisphere. The problem is ignorant people that assume location = similarity.

You people are ignorants. You treaty whole post communist Europe as it was a dirty hellhole producing poor immigrants.

"You people"? We aren't all Daily Mail readers.

I've seen many rants on BBC against people from the new EU member countries, crap about them stealing jobs and increasing crime, but not a word against the same thing being done by people from your ex-colonies in Africa and Asia.

People that post comments on BBC news articles are not repressentative of the country.

I guess it is politically incorrect to offend black and brown people, therefore you need some whites you can offend without feeling racist.

I'm pretty sure it's politically incorrect to offend anyone.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Winner: Calm down, and stop being so rude.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[jessiecat]

I am obviously talking about some people in Britain, not all of them.

And I do it in a thread with an article denouncing the myth about criminal evil Eastern Europeans because the very fact that we need such article means this view exists and that it is widespread enough to draw attention of the Guardian.

I wish you could make up your mind about what the point is. Like you, the Guardian article
explains that the belief that immigrants cause an increase in crime is a myth. It also points
out that overall crime figures have dropped in Britain in a period which has had an increase
of 1 million in EU immigration.
But instead of welcoming the Guardian article you trash the paper as a whole because it dares
to use your hated "Eastern European" definition. Which is it? Is the article right or just wrong
because you disagree with one phrase?
Ever heard the English phrase "to throw the baby out with the bath water"?

 

[Winner]

I wish you could make up your mind about what the point is. Like you, the Guardian article
explains that the belief that immigrants cause an increase in crime is a myth. It also points
out that overall crime figures have dropped in Britain in a period which has had an increase
of 1 million in EU immigration.
But instead of welcoming the Guardian article you trash the paper as a whole because it dares
to use your hated "Eastern European" definition. Which is it? Is the article right or just wrong
because you disagree with one phrase?
Ever heard the English phrase "to throw the baby out with the bath water"?

The point is that even when saying the right thing, the newspaper feeds the ignorance of some people be insisting on a wrong term which just creates misconceptions and prejudices.

 

[RedRalph]

there was a documentry on channel 4 the other night presented by Rageh Omar about links between immigration and crime. It basically came to the conclusion that even relatively newly settled immigrants resent onther ones that come after them. Showed this area in London where the local Pakistani/English poulation, most of them only in England a few years, had been persecuting Kurds who had moved there recently... it was pretty disheartening. you kind of expect people who have had similar experiences to sympathise with one another, but sadly, odd as this may sound, the Ignorant have no monopoly on ignorance.

that said, as far as I know there is no emnity in Ireland between longer term immigrants and newer ones, for instance the Nigerians here dont seem to have any problems with the Poles, etc...

 

[RedRalph]

The point is that even when saying the right thing, the newspaper feeds the ignorance of some people be insisting on a wrong term which just creates misconceptions and prejudices.

this is a prejudice which exists largely in your mind. I have no experience of people here assuming anyone form EE is dirt poor, ignorant etc... you are the one who hates anmd is prejudicial against Eastern Europe, far more than anyone I know or anyone of these boards form what I can see.

 

[Winner]

Australia has little in common with Chile but that doesn't mean it's not in the southern hemisphere. The problem is ignorant people that assume location = similarity.

Better analogy would be if someone called Australia "South East Asia". It's close to Indonesia, so why not? Well, because it's not correct, that's why. Australia may be close, but it is different.

I am asking for the same dicretion in the case of Central and Eastern European region.

"You people"? We aren't all Daily Mail readers.

People that post comments on BBC news articles are not repressentative of the country.

What is representative of the country? BBC comments are usually extremelly anti-EU - and Britain is indeed very eurosceptic. If that's correct, why shouldn't I trust it on other issues, like this one?

I'm pretty sure it's politically incorrect to offend anyone.

No seriously, in Western European countries, it is politically less incorrect to bash "eastern" Europeans, than Africans, Pakistanis, Hindus. or Chinese. I assume it is like that because "eastern" Europeans are not a visible minority (another PC term, but it fits in this case). You can't usually tell a Pole from a German just from their looks. They won't yell "you're racists!" every time someone offends them, therefore it is politically less incorrect to abuse them as the minority which can be blamed for most of the problems.

It used to be the Jews few decades ago, but that's now incorrect too, besides there's not enough of them and they're usually too well off to blame them for crime.

 

[The End Is Nigh]

who cares, they took our jobs nonetheless!

Bloody bleeping foreigners. They've taken our women; they've taken our jobs; they abuse our generous (?) welfare state. What next?

Thank god for the Italians for showing the way: Silvio is the answer!!!

 

[Winner]

this is a prejudice which exists largely in your mind. I have no experience of people here assuming anyone form EE is dirt poor, ignorant etc... you are the one who hates anmd is prejudicial against Eastern Europe, far more than anyone I know or anyone of these boards form what I can see.

You are using an incorrect term which is borderline offensive to most of those you call Eastern Europeans. Get over it, it's a fact. Nobody care if you mean it that way or not.

The papers and other media keep this nonsense alive.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Winner, does this mean you want RRW to be more politically correct about the issue?

 

[Sharwood]

Many people, including Australians, refer to Australia as part of South East Asia, That's because geographically it is just a small extension from the Indonesian archipelago. Not much of an example.

 

[RedRalph]

You are using an incorrect term which is borderline offensive to most of those you call Eastern Europeans. Get over it, it's a fact. Nobody care if you mean it that way or not.

The papers and other media keep this nonsense alive.

you say its a fact, but

a) there is no hard and fast definition of what is Eastern, Central or western Europe. Its subjective. So by definition it is not a fact at all.

b) you admit yourself you have nothing whatsoever to back up the "fact" that its an offensive term. Literally nothing. so forgive me (and pretty much everyone else) if your opinion dosent count as a "fact" to us.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Let me be more clear:

Stick to the topic. Hint: The topic is NOT what geographic area is eastern europe.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

True.

Winner, if you feel like it, would you answer my question in this thread, in the political correctness thread?