Executing the innocent

[otago]

Strange how so many Americans are so keen on the death penalty even though the innocent have been executed.
Maybe they see it as a mark of a civilised country that they keep the death penalty, just like Iran does.
Except Iran is a damn sight more honest, they hang them off a crane in public, if the death penalty is so right, why hide the event away ?
Still if it is only the poor that are being killed by the state why should ordinary Americans worry.
Funny how one can buy the right verdict, like that
bloke Brown did.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.deathpenalty22aug22,0,447580.story

 

[Trajan12]

We don't have the Death Penalty in Michigan. Hurl that "Civilization" stuff at the other states like Texas and California.

 

[DNK]

Odd that most of the arguments I've heard for the death penalty have had nothing to do with your lame attempt at a counter-argument.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The concept of "better a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man unjustly locked away" just hasn't sunk in well in the US.

 

[Bigfoot3814]

We don't have the Death Penalty in Michigan. Hurl that "Civilization" stuff at the other states like Texas and California.

Or better yet China. They still execute the most people.

 

[emzie]

I'm just waiting for a man or woman to be proven innocent after they were executed. Well aside from Ruben Cantu, because he clearly wasn't the type of most Americans would care for.

Guess I'm waiting for a well-groomed white man or a white woman to be exonerated after execution.

 

[MobBoss]

Strange how so many Americans are so keen on the death penalty even though the innocent have been executed.
Maybe they see it as a mark of a civilised country that they keep the death penalty, just like Iran does.
Except Iran is a damn sight more honest, they hang them off a crane in public, if the death penalty is so right, why hide the event away ?
Still if it is only the poor that are being killed by the state why should ordinary Americans worry.
Funny how one can buy the right verdict, like that
bloke Brown did.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.deathpenalty22aug22,0,447580.story

Story doesnt mention a single person executed that was later found to be innocent. At least I didnt see any on my first read. Anyone else see any?

 

[emzie]

Story doesnt mention a single person executed that was later found to be innocent. At least I didnt see any on my first read. Anyone else see any?

Ruben Cantu seems to be the best candidate for that:

Cantu's long-silent co-defendant, David Garza, just 15 when the two boys allegedly committed a murder-robbery together, has signed a sworn affidavit saying he allowed his friend to be falsely accused, though Cantu wasn't with him the night of the killing.

...

And the lone eyewitness, the man who survived the shooting, has recanted. He told the Chronicle he's sure that the person who shot him was not Cantu, but he felt pressured by police to identify the boy as the killer. Juan Moreno, an illegal immigrant at the time of the shooting, said his damning in-court identification was based on his fear of authorities and police interest in Cantu.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

The opinion that Ruben Cantu was innocent is shared by:

The witnesses who testified against him.
The DA who over saw his prosecution.
The forewoman of the jury.

And... apparently the Judge who oversaw Cantu's appeal is now the DA for San Antonio and is looking into going after one of the witnesses for perjury.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruben_Cantu

For what it's worth, I'm a strong supporter of the death penalty in theory but against it in how it is currently practiced.

 

[Perfection]

Executing the innocent vs imprisoning them forever, wooo big diff!





​

 

[warpus]

I can think of one guy who was executed who was later found to be innocent.

I think his name was Jesus...

 

[MobBoss]

Ruben Cantu seems to be the best candidate for that:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

The opinion that Ruben Cantu was innocent is shared by:

The witnesses who testified against him.
The DA who over saw his prosecution.
The forewoman of the jury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruben_Cantu

Not going to take the time to read the links, but I will give you one. Even if it is an 'opinion' that he was innocent and not an official finding of fact.

But is that all we have? One? Out of how many?

Sounds like we are doing a pretty good job not executing the innocent to me.

 

[MrPopov]

Executing the innocent vs imprisoning them forever, wooo big diff!





​

Really? You can't you take the next step in logic and find that IF the person was found innocent, at least they are still ALIVE and set free.

Plus the prosecutors and judges or jury or whoever is involved in the execution might feel a bit guilty murdering an innocent person vs imprisoning them until they died of natural causes.

 

[scy12]

Executing the innocent vs imprisoning them forever, wooo big diff!





​

Parole. + New evidence =/ Forever

Being dead = Forever.

 

[emzie]

Not going to take the time to read the links, but I will give you one. Even if it is an 'opinion' that he was innocent and not an official finding of fact.

But is that all we have? One? Out of how many?

Sounds like we are doing a pretty good job not executing the innocent to me.

"For the original 48 cases, it took an average of approximately six and a half years between conviction and eventual release. With the 21 additional cases included in this report, the average time spent on death row before release is now about seven years. This length of time is important because both state and federal legislation in recent years will shorten the length of time death row inmates have before their execution. Currently, the average time between sentencing and execution is eight years."

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=292&scid

You can see where a problem (especially when there's inadequate defense) might arise, yeah?

But for now, yeah, just the 1 guy I know of that seems to almost certainly been wrongly convicted, if not factually innocent (which does seem pretty damn likely).

 

[JollyRoger]

Not going to take the time to read the links, but I will give you one. Even if it is an 'opinion' that he was innocent and not an official finding of fact.

But is that all we have? One? Out of how many?

Sounds like we are doing a pretty good job not executing the innocent to me.

The Dallas DA is exonorating numerous inmates whose cases were seen as open and shut decades ago when they were prosecuted. There very likely has been innocent people put to death in Texas.

 

[Red Door]

Carlos De Luna.
Cameron Todd Willingham.
Larry Griffin.

Stanford Law Review found 23 innocent people killed between 1900 and 1985.

And let us not forget at least 125 men (Amnesty International) who have spent years on death row and turned out to be innocent, including Joseph Green Brown (Shabaka Waglini) who now dedicates his days working in a soup kitchen in Washington D.C. Or the men in the past exonerated by The Innocence Project.

One is too many anyways, 23 is a tragedy. One means an imperfect system and in a system that give you life or death, we can't have imperfect systems.

 

[Perfection]

Really? You can't you take the next step in logic and find that IF the person was found innocent, at least they are still ALIVE and set free.

If the person was sentanced to life, noone would bother to make sure they were actually guilty. I mean the whole reason death row inmates are found to be innocent (or at least not guilty) is that all sorts of crazy liberals dump millions of bucks into thier legal defense funds.

They're better off with the death sentance.

 

[emzie]

The Dallas DA is exonorating numerous inmates whose cases were seen as open and shut decades ago when they were prosecuted. There very likely has been innocent people put to death in Texas.

If it were to happen, I think everyone can safely assume that it would happen in Texas. Your state's disturbingly efficient at cutting through red tape on this matter. IIRC, the average time between conviction and execution in Texas is shorter than the average time it took wrongfully convicted persons to win their freedom (my previous post).

 

[Nylan]

Strange how so many Americans are so keen on the death penalty even though the innocent have been executed.
Maybe they see it as a mark of a civilised country that they keep the death penalty, just like Iran does.
Except Iran is a damn sight more honest, they hang them off a crane in public, if the death penalty is so right, why hide the event away ?
Still if it is only the poor that are being killed by the state why should ordinary Americans worry.
Funny how one can buy the right verdict, like that
bloke Brown did.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.deathpenalty22aug22,0,447580.story

You know, I think I half-called someone an "otago" on another forum, when I meant to say troll. Why do you create so many of these threads?

Also, seriously, I really want to know why you hit enter after every sentence. I'm not kidding or being malicious, I'm fascinated.

EDIT: in retrospect, that came off as a little more harsh than expected

 

[Red Door]

If the person was sentanced to life, noone would bother to make sure they were actually guilty. I mean the whole reason death row inmates are found to be innocent (or at least not guilty) is that all sorts of crazy liberals dump millions of bucks into thier legal defense funds.

Many people given life sentences are found innocent during their prison terms and after their passing (unfortunately). People should be looking to free the innocents from both death row and wrongful imprisonments, but it's a sad fact that they'll concentrate on the ones in the most imminent danger (death row).