PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
Touche on the darts but snooker your dreamingUsed to dominate darts. Past tense
edit: and we infiltrated snooker as well
Explain why your country is better than the US
- Thread starter Phlegmak
- Start date
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
http://www.worldsnooker.com/about_referees-4.htmTouche on the darts but snooker your dreaming
Dun dun dun ...
And on darts, there's only ooooone Andy Fordham
You lot got all the interesting characters in the game.
Richard Cribb
He does monologues
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2003
- Messages
- 4,291
I guess they will just start some national series and call it the World Championship then.
Bah, I play chess regulary on my pub and I can't see any British domination in that particular "sport".In fact, any 'sport' which can be played in a pub so dominoes too.
Start the Tanks, Britian dominates snooker, and darts. In fact, any 'sport' which can be played in a pub so dominoes too.
Come to TEXAS and say that
mitsho
Deity
ok, little excurse here:
Switzerland consisted of dozens of autonomus units (cities like Bern, Zurich, "mountain" counties like Graubünden, Uri, dependent regions like the Vaud and special cases, Neuchatel, bishopprincipality Basel) that had "defense pacts" with each other, nothing more. In 1798, a date that thus is a candidate for the foundation of CH, Napoleon conquered the country, took a region (Wallis), made a constitution and a central government, basically, he created a puppy state like he did all over Europe, but it could still be found on the map. 6 years - and some rebellions, riots - later, he changed the constitution once more into something more acceptable (read conservative, federalistic). in 1815 then, Switzerland got its full autonomy back as part of the Vienna-plan. History continued like in other European places (1830 for example) and in 1848
, finally a Civil War (called Sonderbundskrieg) broke out. It was won in 27 days by the "centralists", and modern Switzerland was created (thus second candidate for the foundation of CH). It was quite a - or at the moment the most - liberal state that could only be founded as the European nations were occupied with other things (hey, it's 1848
). But when the constitution was written, the victors kept in mind somewhat the wishes of the defeated (Catholic Sonderbund) and thus created the "nation of the willing" with its direct consocational (=consensus) democracy that survived until today despite its big internal differences (e.g. languages).Sorry, I got a bit Off-Topic, but he asked...
mick
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
Referees? They don't bloody count. (Especially since English football referees are dire)
Look at all the perty England flags
Andy Fordham, LegendAnd on darts, there's only ooooone Andy Fordham
Bring your chess set along to my local and it will become pretty obvious why we don't dominate that 'sport'.Bah, I play chess regulary on my pub and I can't see any British domination in that particular "sport".
Dang, I forgot they play it over there. Hollywood tells me that it's a 'ghetto sport', is that right?Come to TEXAS and say that
OK, after reading if bull$#it insults;
Country / Independence
Finland 6 December 1917 (from Russia)
Norway 7 June 1905 (Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved); 26 October 1905 (Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union)
Romania 9 May 1877 (independence proclaimed from the Ottoman Empire; independence recognized 13 July 1878 by the Treaty of Berlin; kingdom proclaimed 26 March 1881); 30 December 1947 (republic proclaimed)
Russia 24 August 1991 (from Soviet Union)
Switzerland 1 August 1291 (founding of the Swiss Confederation)
France 486 (unified by Clovis)
CIA factbook. Link I'm done. That's my source, so, whatever it says, I'll go with that. I was willing to be flexible and use other sources, but now this thread stinks of insults and BS, so F- it.
Country / Independence
Finland 6 December 1917 (from Russia)
Norway 7 June 1905 (Norway declared the union with Sweden dissolved); 26 October 1905 (Sweden agreed to the repeal of the union)
Romania 9 May 1877 (independence proclaimed from the Ottoman Empire; independence recognized 13 July 1878 by the Treaty of Berlin; kingdom proclaimed 26 March 1881); 30 December 1947 (republic proclaimed)
Russia 24 August 1991 (from Soviet Union)
Switzerland 1 August 1291 (founding of the Swiss Confederation)
France 486 (unified by Clovis)
CIA factbook. Link I'm done. That's my source, so, whatever it says, I'll go with that. I was willing to be flexible and use other sources, but now this thread stinks of insults and BS, so F- it.
That's a rather stupid list for some cases. Russia in 1991? Russia is a continuation of the USSR.
From the CIA list, the older countries are
Japan (660 BC)
China (221 BC), but they also give 1912 (manchu replaced by republic) and 1949 (communist)
Ethiopia (circa 0?)
San Marino (301)
France (486)
All the other countries are after 1000 AD
Well, I just chose the CIA as tongue-in-cheek all things considered (the adolescent, which has rapidly become the master due to the squabbliing of the longer-established powers) in this thread. But, name the source of your choice - the most popular online encyclopedia, or whatever. But, it's not my place to say when or how long countries have been around. Afterall, I wasn't there. Thus, I'll keep it simple, black and white. Whatever my boss says - that's what I'll go with.
All I know, is that Mirc was wrong when he said Romania is older than the USA. That's really all I ever had to say. The CIA Factbook says so, Wiki says so. Everywhere I look says so. Thus, my work here is done.
All I know, is that Mirc was wrong when he said Romania is older than the USA. That's really all I ever had to say. The CIA Factbook says so, Wiki says so. Everywhere I look says so. Thus, my work here is done.
It depends how you see things.
Romania has been vassals of the Ottoman for two centuries, before being annexed by Ottoman, Austria, Russia.
It became independant later again.
Does it mean there was nothing before ?
Should we consider like the CIA fact book does that Russia exists only since 1991 with the breaking of USSR? If I remember correctly, their was a Russia during WWI, a Russia in 1812 (we know it all to well), etc.
But before their declaration of independance, The USA never existed as an independant country.
From that point of view, Romania is older.
Romania has been vassals of the Ottoman for two centuries, before being annexed by Ottoman, Austria, Russia.
It became independant later again.
Does it mean there was nothing before ?
Should we consider like the CIA fact book does that Russia exists only since 1991 with the breaking of USSR? If I remember correctly, their was a Russia during WWI, a Russia in 1812 (we know it all to well), etc.
But before their declaration of independance, The USA never existed as an independant country.
From that point of view, Romania is older.
Well, what can I say - in the military, they call it a "break in service", i.e. it's not continuous. And for such a thing, there's a penalty. Basically, you don't reap the benefits of one that has non-stop, continual service... especially if the break was long in duration.
But regardless, I don't make the rules, I'm just reading text... text which states certain dates (not attempting to rhyme). But here's the thing, let's take Finland for example. First of all, I'll just forget that horrible experience I was dragged through last page by bitter Vikings in long-term decline, and just use this example: First of all, what is a country? If all the land (of Finland in this case) is officially part of "Russia", then, where is Finland? Is it a country? Technically no. Then, suppose Finland comes back in 1917... there it is again. "Born again", as they say in Christian circles.
So, there's different ways to think about it:
A) Longest, continious running - the U.S. since 1776 for example.
B) Cumulative time - 'Romania' was around for many centuries, with a few complications, but it has more overall 'time in existence'.
Which should count, and why? Well, today, if we somehow could manage it, we could recreate the "Holy Roman Empire", using the same exact borders. Sure, a lot of the same people - their decendants, same towns/cities, routes (now paved), etc. Now how old is this country? Is it really the Holy Roman Empire? Just because "we say it is", and "we want it to be". But, in reality, it is a new country.
Countries rise and fall (with varying degrees of 'fall'), just because they re-emerge with the same name, decendants, and land area, "just because they want it", or were granted it by some treaty... hey, it's a new country. OK, fine - the culture is still there... that's not easy to get rid of. But the country is new.
So, technically, "new country". Old land, though. Same, or similar name. But, a new formation/creation.
I'm sure this post will be picked apart without mercy. I was just trying to express my point of view in reponse to Steph's question. That's it.
Summary:
Culture: Cumulative time (Most of Europe is older)
Country: Continuous time (Different story)
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
Britain is only 9 years old then? We had a new Government take over in 1997
I get the feeling that the CIA factbook is not consistant in itself in this regard. I won't comment on the others since my knowledge there is marginal, but Switzerland, in my opinion, wasn't really founded until 1848 (so that'd actually make it younger than the US).
of course, the official line is 1291 (and most swiss will call that date, it's actuall what's taught at school).
But if we extend the courtesy to switzerland, saying it was founded in 1291, i can't see why russia shouldn't be much older either
edit: oh, just a small correction to mitsho: Sonderbund war was in 1847, not 48 /klugscheisser
of course, the official line is 1291 (and most swiss will call that date, it's actuall what's taught at school).
But if we extend the courtesy to switzerland, saying it was founded in 1291, i can't see why russia shouldn't be much older either
edit: oh, just a small correction to mitsho: Sonderbund war was in 1847, not 48
/klugscheisserI take my orders from the CIA. I don't think anymore - that's a mistake. Vikings come out of nowhere and assail me, when I attempt to think.
United Kingdom:
England has existed as a unified entity since the 10th century; the union between England and Wales, begun in 1284 with the Statute of Rhuddlan, was not formalized until 1536 with an Act of Union; in another Act of Union in 1707, England and Scotland agreed to permanently join as Great Britain; the legislative union of Great Britain and Ireland was implemented in 1801, with the adoption of the name the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921 formalized a partition of Ireland; six northern Irish counties remained part of the United Kingdom as Northern Ireland and the current name of the country, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, was adopted in 1927.
-That's an incredibly long sentence. I really don't know what to tell you guys, other than, "you're just old. Everybody knows you're old. Just lie down and rest, old man, and don't worry about it".
PrinceOfLeigh
Wigan, England
I get the feeling that the CIA factbook is not consistant in itself in this regard. I won't comment on the others since my knowledge there is marginal, but Switzerland, in my opinion, wasn't really founded until 1848 (so that'd actually make it younger than the US).
of course, the official line is 1291 (and most swiss will call that date, it's actuall what's taught at school).
But if we extend the courtesy to switzerland, saying it was founded in 1291, i can't see why russia shouldn't be much older either
edit: oh, just a small correction to mitsho: Sonderbund war was in 1847, not 48
You will have an easier time getting blood from a stone than waiting for the CIA to 'extend a courtesy' to Russia.
Damn! Another unusable, biased source. OK, let's use Wikipedia. Just give me a few minutes to go edit some stuff...
lol, and your point is? You're probably confused about the purpose of the pub if you think it's for playing chess
So, "GBR" was not until 1707. Yeah but, correct me if I'm wrong here, but England has really always been the puppet master, calling the shots, steadily dominating, joining together, and consolidating the British Isles (though Ireland got turned loose... most uncharacteristic). It was really England, basically conquering, dividing, and quasi-annexing the realms Rome never could, taming those unruly Scots and Irish over a long period of time, steadily outlasting them, beating down their ability to resist the inevitable.
So, in the process, England had to 'morph' a little bit, during some of the changes which required compromise (since they otherwise would never go quietly), though all these changes were voluntary, internally. But still, they were always more or less calling the shots, steadily having their way with the GBR realm. I mean, everybody knows England dominates the UK. I picture the UK of GBR, as England, dragging Wales by the neck, Scotland by the leg, and N. Ireland by the wrist, into the world spotlight, and saying, "this is us... we are a country.... bloody Hell."
And they just go along with it, their ability and will to resist having been thoroughly eradicated, over hundreds of years, in such close proximity to the English grit. Anway, that's my idea of England... I'd say you've been around since you kicked the Heathens out, what, like 1k years ago. Something like that. I'm mostly talking out of my arse here, trying to amuse you.
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
Steph, I didn't expect that from you, with your Romanian grandmother. Romania was a vassal or a tributary to Ottomans for about 189 years, but it was never annexed by any of those above! The Ottomans annexed Dobrogea, which is about 1/5 of Wallachia, the Austrians annexed Transylvania and Bukovine, and the Russians annexed half of Moldova, what they currently call "Republic of Moldova". Half of Moldova and almost the whole Wallachia were never annexed, I can prove it with scanned documents and maps (P.S. never trust Turkish maps, they'll show even Ukraine in the Ottoman empire).
And if you mean "non-continous", well, then it's either from 1270 (when the first united principality was formed in Wallachia) or from 106 AD (when the Romans won the war with the Dacians and romanized Romania).
Ok, USSR was from 1922 to 1991. Yeah but, correct me if I'm wrong here, but Russia has really always been the puppet master, ...
So why does United Kindgom starts in the 10th century in CIA factbook, and Russia in 1991?
The problem of this list is it's not consistent
Similar threads
