Fall 2017 Update Info

[Eagle Pursuit]

Like I said, she's a marketing manager, not a developer.

She is a former dev. She was a high-ranking dev during production of the game in question and until just recently.

 

[Gort]

She is a former dev. She was a high-ranking dev during production of the game in question and until just recently.

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick regarding what an Associate Producer does. I found an Interview with her from August 2016:

'Producer' is a title with many meanings. What does a producer do at Firaxis?

Sarah Darney: It is a very varied role. There is the product manager side: we're making sure everyone on the team is talking together, speaking the same language, and that we're all moving towards the same end goal. But it's also filling in the gaps, making sure we can help out any way we can, even if that means ordering pizza for lunch.

That doesn't sound like a dev to me, that sounds like someone who tells devs what to do - like a project manager. Not to mention that that's not her job any more anyway - she's a marketing manager. I would like to hear from a current dev regarding upcoming updates, not a marketer.

 

[Tech Osen]

Yay, more religious units to swamp my lands and block my units.

 

[kamex]

No more laughable gossip messages as in "Civ x just received a delegation from.. you". When You just send them a delegation. And this is called an improvement? That I'm no longer notified when I've just sent a delegation somewhere? What a mind-blowing update...

Almost fell of my chair laughing out loud. Its funny because its true.

I think it's a mistake to build around this religious combat. It's so simple and unexciting. We have some monk units now? Does nothing for me. How many players are seriously excited about religious play? Religious combat? The fundamental problem is that religion isn't a matter of a handful of people (missionaries and apostles) "fighting it out" between themselves. The devs trying to enhance this part of the game just doesn't feel exciting to me. Religion is made out to be so simple in this game. I wish the AI was as aggressive with its military, but it all sounds like the useless religion game has been given even more attention.

Hmm I dunno, might give us more depth than have 2 Proselytizers escorted by several Debaters. My biggest issue is Warrior Monks and Gurus might feel non-immersive to all the historically Christian/Islamic/Jewish flavored civs, which is most of them.

Curious about Great Work UI improvements. Maybe the long awaited sort button?

 

[kaspergm]

I'm actually pretty pleased with this patch. Will the game be perfect after it? No, but it's still a step in the right direction. Ironically, having the AI (supposedly) better at using naval units, fleets and armadas will only make coastal settling even less attractive. I've already had newly settled cities knocked down in 2 turns by AI caravels in current game, although it happens extremely rarely, but if this starts being the norm, no way will I have reason to settle coastal cities in the future.

 

[Depravo]

Yay, more religious units to swamp my lands and block my units.

This. If there's one thing the game doesn't need, it's buffs to religious units when they're sent out in a massive, armlocked clod like the AI magics up every few turns.

Christianity didn't spread into northern Europe because Anskar and Willebrod and Augustine and Columba and Corbinian and Amand and all the rest were roaming the medieval landscape in a massive phalanx.

 

[MadDjinn]

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick regarding what an Associate Producer does. I found an Interview with her from August 2016:



That doesn't sound like a dev to me, that sounds like someone who tells devs what to do - like a project manager. Not to mention that that's not her job any more anyway - she's a marketing manager. I would like to hear from a current dev regarding upcoming updates, not a marketer.

You're concept of what 'dev' means is pretty archaic, and somewhat childish. The 'dev team' contains those who manage the production of the game. Without someone managing the various parts and handling planning, nothing gets done on a large dev team.

Where the split wrt 'dev team' vs not is the people on the project vs others in the company vs the publisher. So in this case we're hearing from someone connected to the game directly, vs someone from 2k.

 

[Cerilis]

I'm glad to hear everybody already knows what exactly is in the update and what is not.

 

[Karpius]

Christianity didn't spread into northern Europe because Anskar and Willebrod and Augustine and Columba and Corbinian and Amand and all the rest were roaming the medieval landscape in a massive phalanx.

Truth is, it sorta did. Most of Europe was Christianized at the point of the sword by formerly pagan kings trying to curry favor with the Papacy. It was a great way to cement to their "Divine Rights" as sovereign with their people. Not to mention the markets it opened up. Islam, as well, was spread through conquest and coercion.

That said, the religious 'mechanic' in Civ6 seems way off to me from a historical perspective.

I may have to write further on that later.

 

[Katakanja]

- a hint that the coming new Civ will be naval focussed?

New naval civ... could it be the Ottomans? Or Polynesia?

For those who do not know, the new civs will be Khmer and Indonesia/Majapahit. They will be lead, respectively, by Jayavarman VII and Gitarja.

 

[Gort]

You're concept of what 'dev' means is pretty archaic, and somewhat childish. The 'dev team' contains those who manage the production of the game. Without someone managing the various parts and handling planning, nothing gets done on a large dev team.

Where the split wrt 'dev team' vs not is the people on the project vs others in the company vs the publisher. So in this case we're hearing from someone connected to the game directly, vs someone from 2k.

I dunno, maybe I am out of touch, but to me just managing developers doesn't make you a developer. Like if a client asks to speak to "the developer working on this project" and you send them a marketing manager who used to be a project manager, I don't think that would cut it. Sometimes developers end up managing other teams of developers, but it doesn't sound like that's this person's background.

I'd rather hear updates on the project from someone who is currently working on the project. It's not exactly a huge deal, but it really feels like Firaxis only speaks to the community via marketing person, and it's a bit tiresome

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This. If there's one thing the game doesn't need, it's buffs to religious units when they're sent out in a massive, armlocked clod like the AI magics up every few turns.

Christianity didn't spread into northern Europe because Anskar and Willebrod and Augustine and Columba and Corbinian and Amand and all the rest were roaming the medieval landscape in a massive phalanx.

Since religious units will have ZoC, you can get ahead of this by producing a lot of Inquisitors and making a picket line across a choke point. They will have to slowly filter between your Inqs and you can pick them off. Sure, you have to be proactive in defense, but it sounds feasible.

 

[UWHabs]

You're concept of what 'dev' means is pretty archaic, and somewhat childish. The 'dev team' contains those who manage the production of the game. Without someone managing the various parts and handling planning, nothing gets done on a large dev team.

Where the split wrt 'dev team' vs not is the people on the project vs others in the company vs the publisher. So in this case we're hearing from someone connected to the game directly, vs someone from 2k.

I dunno, maybe I am out of touch, but to me just managing developers doesn't make you a developer. Like if a client asks to speak to "the developer working on this project" and you send them a marketing manager who used to be a project manager, I don't think that would cut it.

I'd rather hear updates on the project from someone who is currently working on the project. It's not exactly a huge deal, but it really feels like Firaxis only speaks to the community via marketing person, and it's a bit tiresome

Depending on what's being talking about, "dev team" can be as small as anyone who wrote lines of code for the project, or as large to include essentially the whole company. But in this case, I don't think it really matters, since in general, you don't hear directly from devs. Mostly because a lot (most?) devs don't always write good (speaking as a dev, you never want me writing our company's press releases). So we give the info to the marketing team, and they push it out on their platforms. I don't mind interacting with the users sometimes, but most of the time it's nice to have an intermediate to shield me from the general feedback, good or bad.

 

[UWHabs]

I'm actually pretty pleased with this patch. Will the game be perfect after it? No, but it's still a step in the right direction. Ironically, having the AI (supposedly) better at using naval units, fleets and armadas will only make coastal settling even less attractive. I've already had newly settled cities knocked down in 2 turns by AI caravels in current game, although it happens extremely rarely, but if this starts being the norm, no way will I have reason to settle coastal cities in the future.

I mostly like the fact that they're willing to change up some "core" concepts like religious combat in a patch, and not just waiting for an expansion to do changes there.

 

[Bee7]

I have to admit I'm not over enthusiastic about this one. A religion overhaul sounds good but playing on the higher levels means you almost never found a religion

That surely is going to be the biggest risk with this patch—if religion remains stacked so far in favour of the AI that it isn’t worth bothering to found one in the first place, then it won’t matter how much work the devs out into the religious game, because many if us will never get to exercise the code. What I would love would be a fix that made religious units like traders in peacetime, and allowed military and settlers to ignore them when the occupy a hex. That would be awesome. Then when war is declared, the religious unit stacking behaviour could change, allowing them to be attacked.

On the naval side, a neat improvement would be if privateers behaved as they did historically, and could be used to plunder trade routes while allowing you to deny they were under your influence. Almost like spies on the seas, they could attack without diplomatic consequences—unless witnesses survived to get back to base. That would make the whole naval part of the game much more interesting, because I suspect that the AI could handle it, even as it stands right now.

 

[UWHabs]

That surely is going to be the biggest risk with this patch—if religion remains stacked so far in favour of the AI that it isn’t worth bothering to found one in the first place, then it won’t matter how much work the devs out into the religious game, because many if us will never get to exercise the code. What I would love would be a fix that made religious units like traders in peacetime, and allowed military and settlers to ignore them when the occupy a hex. That would be awesome. Then when war is declared, the religious unit stacking behaviour could change, allowing them to be attacked.

On the naval side, a neat improvement would be if privateers behaved as they did historically, and could be used to plunder trade routes while allowing you to deny they were under your influence. Almost like spies on the seas, they could attack without diplomatic consequences—unless witnesses survived to get back to base. That would make the whole naval part of the game much more interesting, because I suspect that the AI could handle it, even as it stands right now.

That would also make Lisbon a much better city state, letting you not worry about privateers while allied.

 

[Karpius]

Since religious units will have ZoC, you can get ahead of this by producing a lot of Inquisitors and making a picket line across a choke point. They will have to slowly filter between your Inqs and you can pick them off. Sure, you have to be proactive in defense, but it sounds feasible.

See, now right there that just seems way off. Inquisitors were generally the nasty old men in dungeons who tortured heretics for 'confessions' of their sins. As far as I know, they never formed up into defensive military formations to keep out missionaries from other religions.

I just hope it will still be as easy to turn religion off as it is now.

 

[bbbt]

As a producer she'd likely be hands on with a lot of the line item changes (including UAT testing), though not actually coding, and at large company like Firaxis, potentially has more say on what actually goes into the game than programmers (tho it's a collaborative effort in an ideal world).

 

[bbbt]

I mostly like the fact that they're willing to change up some "core" concepts like religious combat in a patch, and not just waiting for an expansion to do changes there.

Definitely - I'm skeptical of these changes, mostly because I'm in the camp that doesn't really like religion following the standard combat model. But it's good that they are adding content in a patch, and not just tweaking existing items.

 

[Katakanja]

See, now right there that just seems way off. Inquisitors were generally the nasty old men in dungeons who tortured heretics for 'confessions' of their sins. As far as I know, they never formed up into defensive military formations to keep out missionaries from other religions.

Strictly speaking that's not a flaw in the design of the game, just a flaw in the thematic naming of the unit.