Fall 2017 Update Info

[stealth_nsk]

When I see posts about good/bad AI< I remember why I try to avoid such forums most of the time

 

[nzcamel]

Anyways, this made me google Ed Beach's linked in profile. I didn't realize he was the AI programmer for Civ 5 Vanilla. I don't know what I think about that.

Wasn't it Jon Shafer who did the AI in vanilla V?

 

[bite]

Wasn't it Jon Shafer who did the AI in vanilla V?

He was lead developer on the vanilla game

 

[donald23]

He was lead developer on the vanilla game

*designer

 

[Tech Osen]

I've always felt Religion should not be this thing where you have to race for its benefits.
It should be more like a series of policies you unlock thats more tied to your civilizations religion, but also philosophy. (So... you have a choice to move to a more secular philosophy as you unlock communism, or capitalism, or humanism.... or stick with religous beliefs)

I love fantasy games, movies, etc. But Civilization, for me, was always a more realistic, historic game. I have yet to meet a real member of the clergy who could call lightning from the sky. I find it very jarring.

 

[nzcamel]

He was lead developer on the vanilla game

Yeah...and I thought I read somewhere that like Johnson before him, he did the majority of the AI.

 

[Cerilis]

No ZOC means that AI religious units will move even slower through my land, as the ZOC of other civ's religious units will cause them to stop. I don't generally build a holy site unless I play a civ where it's advantageous(Russia and India for example). And I will be annoyed if this new game mechanic forces me to build holy sites just to be able to keep AI religious units from flooding my lands. This looks to be potentially more game breaking than game enhancing.

How dare they not want one aspect of the game to be ignored!

 

[masda_gib]

I find the additional options of pantheons and buildings and maybe the warrior monk as a religion specific unit nice.

I don't know what I think about the deeper rel. combat and guru unit. :/
Some "fighting" possibilities while at peace is certanly nice but then again I find religios combat tedious. Some religious promotions might be good but then again, those units have charges and disband soon anyway. Plus if you don't get a religion you'll get none of all that fancy religious combat stuff.

I'll have to see how it all works out.

 

[spfun]

How dare they not want one aspect of the game to be ignored!

I'll continue to ignore that aspect of the game. As it just slows you down, you could have built a campus or CH, or a settler or some military units... Early game is just to important to waste on religion.

 

[Cerilis]

I'll continue to ignore that aspect of the game. As it just slows you down, you could have built a campus or CH, or a settler or some military units... Early game is just to important to waste on religion.

I guess then you also shouldnt complain if you get overwhelmed by religious units later without a way to keep them in check.

 

[spfun]

I don't, I let the AI waste there time with it, they never have any chance of winning via religion.

 

[Karmah]

Does this finally means that someone (like me) who is able to win consistently at immortal+ without religion will finally be able to play with religion without spending 300 hours learning a strategy to deal every outcome of a slow start (and a good but not good enough gain ?)

Since I'm a casual player now, I just don't play religion based civ (except congo) because it feels to silly to handicap myself that way. Maybe if I had enough time to get bored I would ... or if they finally make religion a good investment again.

 

[Scaramanga]

They are doubling-down on religion. Warrior monks sound like your medieval templars or sohei; maybe faith from kills?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They are doubling-down on religion. Warrior monks sound like your medieval templars or sohei; maybe faith from kills?

When I think Warrior Monk, I think Shaolin.

 

[Scaramanga]

When I think Warrior Monk, I think Shaolin.

I thought of the Japanese ones from the Civ3 scenario. But I found out through wikipedia that Knights Templar are a European variant. This could mean they are medieval, possibly at military tactics.

 

[Haig]

I think the first Expansion isn't going to be religion-focused so now they want to spice it up with this patch.
There are so many Civs with big religious powers now that I really want first expansion to have some civs with commerce and diplomacy bonuses.

Drooling for the patch anyway! Do you think we get it this week or the next?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I love fantasy games, movies, etc. But Civilization, for me, was always a more realistic, historic game. I have yet to meet a real member of the clergy who could call lightning from the sky. I find it very jarring.

Not that religion is my favorite part of this game but I always thought of these units more abstractly than that. Much like how a "library" building doesn't mean that an entire huge metropolis only has one library, the units represent the concept, and the ongoing internal struggle to win over converts, etc. Of course that is little consolation when you're trying to go somewhere but you can't because there are a bunch of guys shooting wizard magic at each other.

Still, if in Civ 4 I could live with having an entire train of equipped settlers being eaten by a lion, I guess I can accept the religious units.

 

[DrJambo]

This is probably a make or break update for Civ VI. We all remember how little the airforce AI was "improved" in earlier patches so I am not holding out much hope for this and 'fixing' the naval side of things.

Have dates been shared for this fall patch?

 

[Softly]

Not trying to derail this thread, but I think it is fair to say that Firaxis missed the mark on how it implemented its Missionary/Apostle/Inquisitor religious spread system. Missionaries clog up the map and the whole thing basically exists on a plane parallel too, but separate from, the rest of the game. I had an interesting idea for an overhaul of this system that would make pursuing religious victory a lot more strategic and satisfying.

• Remove missionaries. Proportionally increase the cost and power of the inquisitor/apostle unit. (No more religious unit spam).
• Base religious pressure (brp): All cities following a religion will exert 1 (2 for holy city) unit of religious pressure to all other cities within 10 tiles.

Now this is where it gets interesting. All cities with a religion will also exert religious pressure based on the districts present in that city. Assume values are per turn and are multiples of brp defined above.

(a) Harbor: Any trade route originating in this city that passes over water will exert 2*brp (city’s base religious pressure) to the destination city.

(b) Commercial District: Harbor: Any trade route originating in this city that passes over land will exert 2*brp to the destination city.

(c) Industrial: Reduces all other religion’s influence by 2*brp per turn.

(d) Entertainment: Exerts 1*brp to all of the city owner’s other cities.

(e) Theater: City extends its religious pressure two tiles further (12 tiles vrs. 10 tiles).

(f) Campus: Exerts 1*brp to all other cities with a campus district that religion’s owner has vision of.

(g) Encampment: Any unit that falls in combat within the cities borders will increase brp by 3 for that turn.

(h) Holy District: Increases the base religious pressure of the city by 1 (brp = 2, 3 for holy cities.)

Apostle could either instantly exert 100 units of religious pressure or 10 RP + converts 10% of all other religion’s cumulative religious pressure to your own (3 charges. 2nd option is better as it prevents older cities from becoming unconvertable).
Under this system, religious units are more expensive and rare. Making the correct decision on which city(s) to use them on is what will lead you to religious victory. More importantly, this will integrate religious victory with the other game mechanics. Build up lots of harbors/commercial districts and unleash a focused barrage of religious pressure onto a key city. Convert your opponent’s encampment cities before declaring war and watch your religion expand around the fallen martyrs. Choose between building industrial districts in your core cities to maximize factory bonus or your border cities to stop your neighbor's religious pressure.

Would obviously mean a major overhaul of many wonders, civ/leader traits, city state bonuses and beliefs, but opens up the possibility for many new ones (i.e Phillip could get double the pressure from harbor/commercial districts on trade routes sent to foreign continents. The Hagia Sophia could exert its city's brp*5 to all city states you are Suzerain). Obviously not married to any of the values or the specific district bonuses.

 

[agonistes]

They have not listed any of the bug fixes yet, we will know about that in the patch notes which will likely come a bit later

This is just an overview of improvements. It's not the official patch notes.

Correct. As the "Fall 2017 Update Preview" states "More changes are coming soon with the “Fall 2017 Update” and we’ll give you a full breakdown of everything going into it when it’s live."

Finally some sanity in this thread. Reading it felt like Jabberwock hunting.

We are (hopefully) getting more options for your religion, more action at sea, and the option to play with more civs (due to more beliefs). The monk is a belief option from the way I read it, not everyone will have it. The guru is a heal unit. It will cost faith. It should not increase faith unit spam in and of itself, unless you are very bad at eliminating ai faith units.

Shame about the wall of negativity. Seems like a promising DLC to me.

If you think acquiring a religion is inefficient, you aren't using the religion wisely.