Fall Further - The Original Thread

[[to_xp]Gekko]

hehe, I guess I'm too much of a barb-hater to get in touch with the Elohim lifestyle

anyway, Vehem, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the raider promotion automatically destroying bear dens and the like, if it's designed to work the way it works right now or if it could use some changes. I took a glance at the improvementinfos.xml file, and imho a few too many improvements are gonna be auto-razed it seems. didn't scroll through the whole file yet, but the broken sepulcher comes to mind as a good example. does <bpermanent>0<bpermanent> mean that it's gonna be destroyed if you move a raider unit on it? cuz that looks like a waste of death mana.

 

[Vehem]

anyway, Vehem, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the raider promotion automatically destroying bear dens and the like, if it's designed to work the way it works right now or if it could use some changes. I took a glance at the improvementinfos.xml file, and imho a few too many improvements are gonna be auto-razed it seems. didn't scroll through the whole file yet, but the broken sepulcher comes to mind as a good example. does <bpermanent>0<bpermanent> mean that it's gonna be destroyed if you move a raider unit on it? cuz that looks like a waste of death mana.

If I'm not much mistaken the bear dens are auto razed when *anyone* walks onto them, not just the raider trait units. The animal dens weren't included as "dungeons" when the Marnok Lairs functionality was first designed.

Broken Sepulcher is a new one on me - hadn't noticed that it wasn't permanent until you mentioned it. Is that a recent change?

The one I had expected to be a problem was Pyre of the Sepharic - which I think I'll make permanent, switch the "razing" to being a spell and disable the appropriate AI's from using (Clan of Embers and anyone else that would be unlikely to pillage it - Elohim perhaps?). It's very easy to do that way with ImprovementPrereq for spells.

The same fix will likely work for Broken Sepulcher, but I'd like to work out why it's not permanent before applying it.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

thanx for the reply: if animal dens are not considered marnok-style lairs then it makes sense how they are behaving right now.

not sure about when the broken sepulcher became pillageable, never looked at the improvementinfos.xml until now. I recommend you check out the file to see if everything's working as it should. I can do it if you want, but I don't know how helpful that would be since I don't know how it SHOULD be in FF in the first place

 

[xienwolf]

The ALT-TAB issue with Fullscreen, or Windowed mode? Pretty sure my test CvMain is still the last release CvMain, and I'm not seeing the issue when I tab out, but I always play windowed (seems to eat fewer resource that way)

 

[Jhoniten]

I might be off on my guess, but i think he is refering to the disappearing HUD problem. As it has been mentioned, forcing the game to redraw the HUD will fix the problem. Open cityscreen, scroll out to global view and back. I don't know what Sez fixed when he redid the HUD but I don't have that problem anymore with his new HUD. And it looks great.

 

[scutarii]

I agree that spiritual is essential to Elohim, but I think this is very cool way to get it as it is now. But I think that maybe it is possible to link Shrine of Sironia somehow with Elohim in maps: make it happen so that SoS spawns near Elohim staring location. It doesn't have to be very close, though...

I hope that new patch doesn't break saves( most probably it does), because of I'm playing with...Elohim now.

 

[Valerarren]

The ALT-TAB issue with Fullscreen, or Windowed mode? Pretty sure my test CvMain is still the last release CvMain, and I'm not seeing the issue when I tab out, but I always play windowed (seems to eat fewer resource that way)

The alt-tab issue only seems to appear in Fullscreen mode for me. However, if I switch resolutions while in windowed mode, I can get it to do the same thing.

Here's the missing HUD
http://www.geocities.com/valerarren/MissingHud.JPG
and here it is after hitting ctrl-i a couple times.
http://www.geocities.com/valerarren/MissingHudFound.JPG

 

[xienwolf]

Ok, I was misreading your first post, and thought you only lost half of the interface. Next patch clears up the occasionally missing interface bits.

 

[Valkrionn]

I agree that spiritual is essential to Elohim, but I think this is very cool way to get it as it is now. But I think that maybe it is possible to link Shrine of Sironia somehow with Elohim in maps: make it happen so that SoS spawns near Elohim staring location. It doesn't have to be very close, though...

I hope that new patch doesn't break saves( most probably it does), because of I'm playing with...Elohim now.

The Flavourmod 2.0 not only gives you flavour starts for civs, but for Unique Features too. I'm not sure if that was incorporated along with the rest of the mod, but even without it you can add in a weighting for the Shrine.

 

[Vehem]

Patch G - Download
1. Windmill and Watermill prereqs moved to Construction from Engineering.
2. Windmill and Watermill upgrade prereqs moved to Engineering from Machinery.
3. Gifts of Nantosuelta requires Masonry.
4. Maelstrom brought back in line with FfH033 (will affect team/neutral units).
5. Courage no longer effects neutral units.
6. Disappearing interface fixed, still need to work on the speed further (one area of the code is tidier, but it doesn't seem to have made it much faster)
7. Removed RescueAdventurer as an option from lair exploration - had no result for non-Grigori players.
8. Lizard priest (Omorr, Agruonn and Kalshekk) entries fixed.
9. Boost Elohim flavour preference for the beneficial sites - you should be more likely to start next to one of them now (Beacon of Sirona and Pool of Tears most favoured).

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

awesome!

 

[Eternal Requiem]

ooooh cooly! damn I knew it was a good idea to watch this thread like a hawk... I actually forced myself to not play the game while waiting for this... I've been so bored but no longer!

 

[Ahriman]

Is there any particular reason why Mazatl priests can't upgrade to a paladin? Or to a high priest? Makes the spiritual trait weaker than it otherwise would be; normally uberpaladins that autogain experience are a prime reason for the spriritual trait.

Also, the Lost Lands civic remains overpowered. The fundamental problem are the hammers it gives. Hammers are very often the limiting factor in FFH; you can build farms or cottages anywhere to get food or commerce, but hammers are limited by the presence of hills, which are often not around.

I don't mind it giving food to power Lizard Super Cities, but I think you need to take the hammers away. With lost lands, you can just cottage everywhere to increase the commerce output of the city, and this ends up also increasing the food and hammer production.

 

[CharaBoeuf]

My automated workers are acting really dumb -- they're not running away from adjacent enemy units. Can this be fixed please? It's totally annoying.

 

[Yashkaf]

I just started my first FF game a couple of days ago, and I must admit the effect is a bit like starting BtS after a year of vanilla. After two days I can't imagine myself going back to "vanilla" FfH. For me it's not even the new civs or units. It's those little things which can suck the fun out of the game, like checking the tech trade screen every turn, as well as the city screen and the commerce screen.. now the beginning of every turn is like a good morning: "Hello commander, Cassiel is ready to trade you priesthood for math and a draft pick because he knows you're a tech whore. Also, your capital is growing out of happiness again next turn, how about that brewery finally? Only 100 bucks and you can get it installed by tomorrow." Just an amazing job by all the guys doing the changes that make the game fun, and Vehem making them work together. Thank you all.

On a different note, my HUD keeps disappearing and I CtD when loading a game from in-game (memory allocation error) (although it teaches me not to cheat). Just so you know, nothing personal.

 

[Vehem]

On a different note, my HUD keeps disappearing and I CtD when loading a game from in-game (memory allocation error) (although it teaches me not to cheat). Just so you know, nothing personal.

Thanks - the latest patch covers the HUD issue, but the MAF (Mem Alloc Fault) is a Civ4 bug - I don't think anyone has made much progress resolving it in either normal Civ or FfH, but if anyone knows of any work that has been done on it, please point the way and we'll take a look at incorporating it.

Also, the Lost Lands civic remains overpowered. The fundamental problem are the hammers it gives. Hammers are very often the limiting factor in FFH; you can build farms or cottages anywhere to get food or commerce, but hammers are limited by the presence of hills, which are often not around.

I don't mind it giving food to power Lizard Super Cities, but I think you need to take the hammers away. With lost lands, you can just cottage everywhere to increase the commerce output of the city, and this ends up also increasing the food and hammer production.

Not a side of it that I'd looked at, but that makes sense. I'm going to try having a play around with the Mazatl and see how I can bring them under control - until now I'd been working on limiting the commerce, but the hammer benefits of deep jungles are actually fairly significant too, as well as the bonus from trade routes. I'm thinking of hiking the num cities or distance maintenance for Lost Lands a little already - but I'll see what else I can do.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

(patch g)

deep jungle button is missing

can we add in seZ's fantastic HUD? i really miss it when i play FF

EDIT: yggdrasil starts in tundra often, i assume this shouldnt happen.
Pyre of the seraphic starts on grassland forest, no where near jungle or desert like i assume it should?

 

[Tarquelne]

Ah yes. In Fall Further all spell ranges are enhanced by spell Extension (and any other promotions which gives a SummonPerk that enhances mobility).

Do spells like Enchanted Blade now need "Immune Enemy"? I can't check ATM but IIRC that's what first made me wonder about a bug - I thought I was enchanting an invading army's weapons.

 

[xienwolf]

Yeah, they would need that, or very cautious application of buff spells I'll have to put that at the top of the list for additions it would seem. Or change it so that spell range can only be enhanced if the spell STARTED with a range to it.

 

[Vehem]

(patch g)
EDIT: yggdrasil starts in tundra often, i assume this shouldnt happen.
Pyre of the seraphic starts on grassland forest, no where near jungle or desert like i assume it should?

Yggdrasil seems to be explicitly allowed in Tundra...

            <TerrainMakesValids>
                <TerrainMakesValid>
                    <TerrainType>TERRAIN_GRASS</TerrainType>
                    <bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
                </TerrainMakesValid>
                <TerrainMakesValid>
                    <TerrainType>TERRAIN_TUNDRA</TerrainType>
                    <bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
                </TerrainMakesValid>
            </TerrainMakesValids>
            <FeatureMakesValids>
                <FeatureMakesValid>
                    <FeatureType>FEATURE_FOREST</FeatureType>
                    <bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
                </FeatureMakesValid>
            </FeatureMakesValids>

and apparently the Pyre is only allowed on "Dry Terrains", rather than jungle (can't get jungle on either Plains or Desert naturally)

            <TerrainMakesValids>
                <TerrainMakesValid>
                    <TerrainType>TERRAIN_PLAINS</TerrainType>
                    <bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
                </TerrainMakesValid>
                <TerrainMakesValid>
                    <TerrainType>TERRAIN_DESERT</TerrainType>
                    <bMakesValid>1</bMakesValid>
                </TerrainMakesValid>
            </TerrainMakesValids>

===

Not sure I necessarily follow the logic on these, but they're the defaults - haven't been changed in FF (yet).