FarowNES02

[Silver Steak]

From: Fizcat
To: Bhato Fizcat

We will agree to demote Fizcatian Atheism as our national religion when all of Fizcat is united under the Duke again. It is up to you when this is to happen, wether you want to fight to the bitter end or surrender peacefully. No other conditions will be made for the peace, either by you or us. Agree to this, or we will assure you that we shall not stop fighting until all of Bhatoism is reduced to mere memories.

 

[TerrisH]

Question One:
My nation is Utterly Screwed by the new Rules. 8 cities, 50,000 or so population. same thing is happening to several other Other nations. hmm, If you are going to implment these rules, I recomend that you balance the populations, and boost the population of those nation that have more cities than thier population can support to a level where they can support them. Only Fair. well, unless my Econemy is already takeking a hit from the reduced population, and is still at 10 EP. then skip it, as well, my Econemy is compleatly insane and you are a godling.

 

[LightFang]

That totally sucks, that means that 5 eco points will be sunk into the upkeep of my mighty army! DX

But, it's a good idea. I just don't like the fact that now my army is suddenly going to be drastically reduced. But then, who wouldn't?

 

[The Farow]

Everyone I said I will adapt current stats to the new rules. Don't worry I will put your nations in the tank

 

[justokre]

I have no qualms with the rules. They are better than the prevous. I just wanna hurry up and play!

 

[jalapeno_dude]

I have no qualms with the rules. They are better than the prevous. I just wanna hurry up and play!

Justokre, send JalNES orders!

New rules look good...

 

[TerrisH]

ah, missed that part. everything else looks good Farrow!

 

[TerrisH]

To Tereno
Those Terms were not a Return to status quo, for you would have still kept your other Gains.
but as you have refused to negotate at all, we will now Treat you are the honorless dogs you all. Untill such taime you come seeking Peace, we shall ignore you.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

To: Dilhava
From: Tereno

Ah, so we would have kept northern Neptanian islands... that was overlooked.

We are not closing the door on peace negotiations, we will wait to see if Fizcat, on whose behalf we entered this war, comes to a peace deal that is satisfactory to it.

And don't try to turn T'lur Pa against Tereno and Illion. Our nations have always been friends, and at worst, civil towards each other.

 

[TerrisH]

As it seems you have re-considered on overlooking that point, we will reconsider that point, and have recalled our messenger on that diplomancy to T'lur Pa.

and we agree to wait on the outcome of the negotions with Fizcat. we mearly saw the reconization fo bhato fizcat as the best solution at the time to the Bahto-Fizcat problem. if they can come up with another solution, we will stand by it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Rules are net finalized and I will show you what I have developed so far.

Cities cost 1 economic point. You need at least 10,000 people for each city before you can build another without stifling your economy. Additionally, you need at least 20,000 in the rural areas before additional construction. Likewise if your population falls below the required amount then you face economic problems and entire cities being abandoned. So be careful with city planning and construction.

For instance you country has 60,000 people you can only build 4 cities at the most until your population grows.

until the last 100 years or so most (75-90%) of the world's population was rural. At the time of this NES, you might make sure that at least 50-75% are rural and the remainder urban. A 100,000 population then could have two 20,000 population cities and 60,000 farmers. Your scheme is unbalanced from a historical point of view.

Population

One of the most important stats to the game. Yes, I am actually making this stat important now! Now for various other parts of the stats I am making population levels which will influence a variety of things from economy to the military. The number next to the population sizes are maintenance for education.

Population Stats
(0) 10,000- 50,000: 1000 Infantry, 500 Cavalry
(0) 51,000- 100,000: 2000 Infantry, 1000 Cavalry
(1) 101,000- 200,000: 3000 Infantry, 1500 Cavalry
(1) 201,000- 300,000: 4000 Infantry, 2000 Cavalry
(2) 301,000- 400,000: 5000 Infantry, 2500 Cavalry
(2) 401,000- 500,000: 6000 Infantry, 3000 Cavalry
(3) 501,000- 600,000: 7000 Infantry, 3500 Cavalry
(3) 601,000- 700,000: 8000 Infantry, 4000 Cavalry
(4) 701,000- 800,000: 9000 Infantry, 4500 Cavalry
(4) 801,000- 900,000: 10,000 Infantry, 5000 Cavalry
(5) 901,000- 1,000,000: 11,000 Infantry, 5500 Cavalry

Note: May double troop levels at each level. What do you think?

Hans Delbruck estimated the total free population of Attica in the 5th C BC at about 100,000 and worked out the maximum potential size of the Athenian army as this:

1,200 mounted men
1,600 archers
13,000 hoplites
13,000 service-qualified Athernian citizens
7,200 militarily unqualified

or 36,000 of service age. That is about 36% of total population. I would suggest a standing army max size of about 15% of total population and a maximum army size of 35% for game purposes.

Size Stat

Now size stat is the amount it costs to increase infrastructure and education. It is a representation of the size of your nation in terms of population and land. Simple enough.

Tiny (1)
Small (2)
Medium (3)
Growing (4)
Large (5)
Massive (6)
Roman Empire (7)

How about making size two parts one for land area and the other for population? Land/Pop (4/2) That way you could have different costs based on different parts of the size stat. Education might be based on population and infrastructure based on land size.

Standing Army

This is the newest and most important feature to this rule set. Each nation will have a base standing army based on their population size (see above). You do not have to pay maintenance for these soldiers until you go over the limit. Having large standing armies when not needed will be an economic drain so be careful. Now for every 1000 infantry or 500 cavalry you go over your size you must be one economic point.

Very high cost. If I can build 1000 troops for 1 ep and if that puts me over the limit, then it will cost me 1 ep for each turn I keep it. No one will will have a bigger army, because it makes no sense to pay the full price of a unit each turn as upkeep.

Levies

Now during peace time there are the minor threats such as barbarians or raiders. You may call up civilian troops to help defend your nation during these times or during a crisis. Now they do cost money to arm but require no maintenance. However, if you employ them too long it will lower your economy. The longer the civilian soldiers are not tending to their farm the more production your nation overall loses. Also, Levies are only really useful on home ground. Even then they tend to be disorganized against a professional or standing army.

Good idea, but don't forget that there are only a limited number of men at the right age to fight in a war. If a country has 100,000 people and half are female and 25% of the men are either too old or too young then the maximum of all males who can fight is 37,500. If 17,500 are already in the army then there are only 20,000 left to be called up. If all those are called up then there is no one to do all the work that adult men do to keep the society functioning and the army supplied with weapons and armor.

 

[jalapeno_dude]

until the last 100 years or so most (75-90%) of the world's population was rural. At the time of this NES, you might make sure that at least 50-75% are rural and the remainder urban. A 100,000 population then could have two 20,000 population cities and 60,000 farmers. Your scheme is unbalanced from a historical point of view.

What about the ancient Greek city-states?

Very high cost. If I can build 1000 troops for 1 ep and if that puts me over the limit, then it will cost me 1 ep for each turn I keep it. No one will will have a bigger army, because it makes no sense to pay the full price of a unit each turn as upkeep.

Not true. You recruit more troops because you're likely to take casualties in battle. In JalNES, troop sizes after purchases often would cause absolutely MASSIVE upkeep, but 50%+ of these troops are killed during the turn.

 

[TerrisH]

until the last 100 years or so most (75-90%) of the world's population was rural. At the time of this NES, you might make sure that at least 50-75% are rural and the remainder urban. A 100,000 population then could have two 20,000 population cities and 60,000 farmers. Your scheme is unbalanced from a historical point of view.

I rather Susspect the Average Size of these new cities are 3-5 thosand, witht eh other 10 thosand being Rural suronding those cities.

 

[The Farow]

until the last 100 years or so most (75-90%) of the world's population was rural. At the time of this NES, you might make sure that at least 50-75% are rural and the remainder urban. A 100,000 population then could have two 20,000 population cities and 60,000 farmers. Your scheme is unbalanced from a historical point of view

I am actually putting that in place to prevent people from building too many cities. I can add a rural limit to balance this issue as well.

Hans Delbruck estimated the total free population of Attica in the 5th C BC at about 100,000 and worked out the maximum potential size of the Athenian army as this:

1,200 mounted men
1,600 archers
13,000 hoplites
13,000 service-qualified Athernian citizens
7,200 militarily unqualified

or 36,000 of service age. That is about 36% of total population. I would suggest a standing army max size of about 15% of total population and a maximum army size of 35% for game purposes.

Birdjaguar, you can have a larger standing army then the limit. It just costs money for upkeep as you go over the limit. I am sure a lot of money went into paying those soldiers.

How about making size two parts one for land area and the other for population? Land/Pop (4/2) That way you could have different costs based on different parts of the size stat. Education might be based on population and infrastructure based on land size

I agree infrastructure could have its own size stat.

Very high cost. If I can build 1000 troops for 1 ep and if that puts me over the limit, then it will cost me 1 ep for each turn I keep it. No one will will have a bigger army, because it makes no sense to pay the full price of a unit each turn as upkeep.
Good idea, but don't forget that there are only a limited number of men at the right age to fight in a war. If a country has 100,000 people and half are female and 25% of the men are either too old or too young then the maximum of all males who can fight is 37,500. If 17,500 are already in the army then there are only 20,000 left to be called up. If all those are called up then there is no one to do all the work that adult men do to keep the society functioning and the army supplied with weapons and armor.

This is very true. Hence that keeping your levies for too long can cause economic troubles. They are to be called up for times of emergency and it will have impacts. Like I said I am going to adapt stats so population sizes will increase. Could you provide me a solution perhaps?

Birdjaguar thanks for the suggestions. I said these are not the final ones but now everyone has an idea where I am heading for. I am not going for total realism because then stats will be an even bigger headache. Will work with your suggestions.

 

[North King]

Birdjaguar, you can have a larger standing army then the limit. It just costs money for upkeep as you go over the limit. I am sure a lot of money went into paying those soldiers.

Very few armies actually paid their soldiers for quite some time in history. Assyria was the first one, if I recall correctly, and then Rome, well, not counting mercenaries. But really upkeep costs more represent the amount of money lost through lack of labor than lost by paying soldiers.

 

[The Farow]

Very few armies actually paid their soldiers for quite some time in history. Assyria was the first one, if I recall correctly, and then Rome, well, not counting mercenaries. But really upkeep costs more represent the amount of money lost through lack of labor than lost by paying soldiers.

Shows how much I know of ancient history .

Well your reason sounds good as well. . Enjoying the input but it may put back us starting the game. Will try and get up a revised rule set tonight or tomorrow.

Now we are drawing off of earth for help but we will not follow things exactly like Andis comment about horse armies.

 

[The Farow]

I can edit for those who hate double posts but I have bad news and I need to get people's attention.

Okay here is the dilema. Many of you just want to play and these rule changes are taking much time. Correcting and adapting the stats will take forever and at the least we won't see an update for two weeks . I was planning on doing stats this weekend but rules are not even close to being done. Now if I have three options:

1.) We wait for the update to come and the adaption of stats which will take much time.
2.) Have a 200 year BT and I can just make stats for scratch which will give us an update next weekend.
3.) Or we can do one more update with the regular rules then do a BT. Now this also saves me time I just feel it would be easier for me to do stats by scratch.

 

[LightFang]

I don't like pushing people. Whichever one you like, I'll be cool with it.

Makes me wonder how I ever became SOP, with me loathe to push people around...oh wait, we're talking about FarowNES02, not IRC!

No, seriously, whatever works for you, will work. Just don't let it fade into obscurity, that's just my requirement.

 

[jalapeno_dude]

Do whatever you think is best for the NES.

 

[alex994]

I prefer the 2nd choice, but *shrug* I can live with the other options.

Or can I?