Fast and Furious ... What the ?

[Core Imposter]

Is it true that ATF is actually English for SS?

 

[Yeekim]

And as Friendly Fire's other thread points out, the real ongoing villains in this matter are local residents who continue to purchase assault weapons in bulk. And nothing is being done to stop them by the same Republican politicians who are trying to turn this into a clearly partisan matter.

Indeed. And I simply can't wrap my head around the fact that according to certain people such activity should be regarded as completely normal and entirely permissible.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's completely normal for a number of my friends, though terminology behind "assault weapons" and "bulk" varies depending who you are talking to.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The problem is discriminating between those who are currently legitimately creating vast private armories of assault weapons for the upcoming revolution or Zombie Apocalypse, those who are running Branch Davidian-style churches and others who also feel the need for self-defense on a massive scale, from the Victor Bout wannabe small scale arms dealers who are using this as a means of becoming richer. Of course, there is likely a certain degree of overlap as well.

 

[Crezth]

INDs/improvised nuclear devices....

You would use that on your fellow man as a tool of coercion? Typical government thug.

 

[Core Imposter]

You would use that on your fellow man as a tool of coercion? Typical government thug.

You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.

Al Capone
Former Chicago City Administor

 

[Crezth]

Typical. Government. Thug.

 

[Yeekim]

You can get even farther with 50 assault rifles, a rocket launcer and a couple of hand grenades.
- Arizonan Extension

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

witty saying
- Oscar Wilde.

 

[Save_Ferris]

Obligatory post blaming Bush

Obligatory post getting mad at OP for providing MSNBC/Fox link

Obligatory sarcastic "Amurika #1" post

Obligatory post blaming religion

Obligatory post blaming companies

Obligatory post blaming Obama

...
Now that I've taken care of that, we can start.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Obligatory minor nitpick post.*

*:Bonus points if nitpick is false.

 

[Leonel]

Thinly veiled statement making a derogatory claim against your mother's virtue
- Confucius

 

[Core Imposter]

Congressional Democratic Perp Walk,.....CNN acting like this walkout is a big deal.

They are claiming diversity, lol, since they can't claim bipartisanship. Claiming the activity has a smell to it.

Claiming they have done everything possible to thwart those evildoers.

Couple of things, they are trying to sell this as racism, Cleaver led them out not Pelosi. Second, more than a token number of Dems also found Holder contemptible, which is being blamed on the NRA.

Both civil and criminal contempt motions, both will pass.

A nation divided.

 

[Leonel]

Hahaha you know what I just realized? Your writing is style is starting to emulate otago's! It's like the Anti-Otago!

 

[Core Imposter]

Who is Otago?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Both civil and criminal contempt motions, both will pass.
.

So Republicans want Obama to break state laws and crackdown on legal gun sales then ?

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm sure that's definitely the case with no exceptions. It's truly that simple.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Well, that's a new presentation of how things went with that. Maybe, since things are so clear cut, AG Holder should surrender all the facts of the case for oversight so we can work on moving past this ordeal?

Oh heck yeah. I'm glad that Congress held the AG in contempt, but I'm pretty certain the Supremes will side with AG Holder. They've made the rules on presidential privilege pretty clear (although not very sensible). Of course, they did that back when Bush was prez, so they might have a sudden change of heart, but I don't think so: the inconsistency would just be too blatant. And Justice Roberts seems to be on a new* "I'm not blindly partisan!" kick, yay. (*OK, not entirely new.)

Obligatory minor nitpick post.*

*:Bonus points if nitpick is false.

 

[Bugfatty300]

OK, just for everyone's information, the activity described in the OP is not legal.

Basicly: Right now, thousand of assault rifles are being sold legally and making there way into the hand of criminals while the Federal government cant do jack due to state laws.
And the Republicans are saying Obama was allowing a lax gun laws enforcement, in order to stop 2nd amendment rights because the Federal government cant do jack due to state laws.

Fast and Furious was an operation by ATF agents to stop LEGAL gun sales by straw purchasers. Which was not successful because they were unable to gather enough evidence stop the sales due to the very lax guns laws.
Mind is blown.

If, as your article says, they are being propositioned by a third party beforehand and given money to purchase the guns then that is contrary to federal law. It isn't legal at all.

People in the media who are claiming (or trying make it appear) that this activity is legal and protected either are completely ignorant of US firearm laws or are being deliberately misleading in order to turn the tables in an already ugly partisan brawl over who's at fault for F&F. They're no different than the people who are saying F&F was an Obama-led ATF conspiracy to destroy the 2nd amendment.

EDIT: Seriously. it is LEGAL in Az to buy 50x AK47 assault rifles and then exit the store and sell them to someone.

Not if it is a straw purchase. That's a federal offense.

they say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws which stymied them at every turn.,

Oh reallly...

Straw purchases are investigated and prosecuted all the time. I would like some more details on how the ATF was "hamstrung" and stonewalled by laws and prosecutors during that one particular operation (You know, the operation that has had the ATF in hot water for years now? Gee, what a coincidence huh?) and why such laws and prosecutors didn't prevent charges and convictions in other borderland straw purchase stings.

Such as this one...

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_32d16bf5-0c24-5539-ad3f-8b87a842a544.html

...or this one.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2012/03/030112-hou-10-sentenced-for-involvement-in-straw-purchase-and-export-ring.html

I mean, whining about prosecutors and judges who cite lack of evidence when cases are brought to them? That really seems like a lazy cop out from cops who don't know how to properly gather evidence during straw purchase investigations. I still have to call this yet another fatal screw up in the field. Fatal screw ups for which the BATFE is famous world wide.

 

[woody60707]

Yep, not legal at all. Just hard to enforce. A crap ton of laws like that.

I just don't get why President Obama is stone walling with executive privilege.