Foreign Policy: The Germans

[Caledorn]

The point was not really to make anything of their response but from their actions. Now we know for sure that they have noticed RB's power increase. If we see no reaction in their power graph, they have a deal with RB (NAP, alliance, coaliton or some such).

Good point, yep. Still, the response can also be analysed.

 

[Maga_R]

The point was not really to make anything of their response but from their actions. Now we know for sure that they have noticed RB's power increase. If we see no reaction in their power graph, they have a deal with RB (NAP, alliance, coaliton or some such).

Very good point.

 

[Calis]

The point was not really to make anything of their response but from their actions. Now we know for sure that they have noticed RB's power increase. If we see no reaction in their power graph, they have a deal with RB (NAP, alliance, coaliton or some such).

I think already from this reaction, we can assume they have some sort of deal. If they were looking for some support, they would have talked about it.

This note is just like: "Yepp, we know, now leave us alone!"

 

[Maga_R]

I think already from this reaction, we can assume they have some sort of deal. If they were looking for some support, they would have talked about it.

This note is just like: "Yepp, we know, now leave us alone!"

Or more like: "We know, but we are not concerned."

Same meaning. Interesting.

The corollary is that now RB most likely knows that we tried to warn the Germans.

 

[2metraninja]

But of course we will try to warn them. And it is not only one-sided reading of their answer. It can be "We see, but there is nothing we can do about it".

 

[Maga_R]

But of course we will try to warn them. And it is not only one-sided reading of their answer. It can be "We see, but there is nothing we can do about it".

In that case, I think they will be more grateful for the warning - and at least will try to find out if we could help them. Would be only natural, since we warned them in the first place. So either they completely gave up on the game, as Mzprox suggested and do not want to be bother, just sort of want to be killed quickly since they have no chance at all - or they have NAP with RB.

 

[Sommerswerd]

If either of these is true, it does not have much effect on our plans at all.

 

[2metraninja]

We were chatting about possible scenarios about RB-WPC vs Germans war with Bistrita and we come to this idea:

2metraninja: I think WPC knows they are about to dance with the devil
Bistrita: they have few cities if i remember right
2metraninja: yes
Bistrita: well hope germans build
hA
many
tell this to their turn player
if you have a chance
2metraninja: does it worths to tell them directly what to do?
Bistrita: not directly
against knights attack
i found best defence
its Ha and cats
cats built in front cities
and Ha in back
you say you do that
and worked for you
spears if has 1 turn movable cities
they have 14 cities
in 6 turns can get
30 ha easy
2metraninja: aha, we can tell this in the form intelligence information we give them. Like: we know RB are building stables and heading towards knights and our military experts tend to agree the best defense from knights when behind in techs is to build a lot of catapults in front cities, while back cities build HAs and once grouped together, to maul down the enemy stacks
Bistrita: exactly
not telling you noob better do that
they have food
i think they are second in that

 

[Maga_R]

We were chatting about possible scenarios about RB-WPC vs Germans war with Bistrita and we come to this idea:

Very interesting info. Maybe drop "when behind in tech thing" ;-), just tell them HA and cats thing, with HAs being built in the back cities.

 

[vranasm]

if they can get their hands on ivory for at least couple of turns I know even better city defense unit against knights.... and it's not that expensive (compared to knights) and even not that bad priced compared to cats (it's what? 50 x 60 hammers?)

btw while I am rambling a bit about it... they are pretty effective against cuirs too... attacking WE civ is pretty harmful... and we talk here about 2 eras ahead unit fighting basically classical era unit

 

[2metraninja]

Last night I checked and it turned out Germans dont even have HBR and Archery. This means that they are either not aware how good combo HAs+cats can be in defending, or they are not afraid of RB attacking them.

There is a chance that Germans are working with RB and tell them everything, but I think we must take this chance and try to tell them what we think can help them in defending from technologically superior invaders.

Maybe drop "when behind in tech thing" ;-)

Why, to not insult them? But they know they are back in the techs. Even if they are not fully aware of this, some things must be said straight between men, so the others can get the idea without mistakes. Even sometimes someone else telling you something which you always knew for yourself acts as awakening cold shower or slap.

 

[2metraninja]

I just went and checked what Germans tech the last 10-15 turns. They teched, Construction and just after this - Currency which I think speaks a lot. They wanted to have catapults badly, even before Currency. Somewhere after or between those they teched Meditation. Since then, they only gather money. They have now about 450 gold, which must be enough for them to tech Archery and HBR in just few turns and hopefully slave some 15-20 HAs...

 

[Maga_R]

Why, to not insult them? Even if they are not fully aware of this, some things must be said straight between men.

I do not share the above conviction, I think smart people do not need things to be said so explicitly to them, and that nobody likes to have their mistakes (or more bad luck in Germans's case) to be rubbed in their face. What if Germans will side with me on that? Why risk alienating them and appearing arrogant? If they are so stupid as you think - not realizing that they are back in tech - it is unlikely they will listen to you anyway ;-)

BTW, what makes you so sure they are all "men" ?

 

[2metraninja]

No one is rubbing someone's mistakes in nowhere. Smart people are still people. I want to leave no place for mistakes and tell them in straight words what I believe must be done. This is how usually men communicate. Especially in harsh times. And we are risking nothing. Alienating them? Gosh, better word will be Haunting them or whatever is suited for ghosts and pale memories, because this is what they are going to turn to in just 15 turns from now. I nowhere said I think them for stupid. Even the brightest ones can have delusions and one good slap can wake them out of this dream world.

I will compose a message and will post it for short discussion/small adjustments. I want it sent today. For me there is not a single doubt what it must read. RB are 1 turn away from Guilds, so Germans have like 4-5-6 turns to prepare good quantity of HAs. We must tell them the things in straight. "Slave cats and HAs like mad and still die, but do so with honor and be remembered as worthy!"

 

[2metraninja]

So, here is the message I came up with. It tells them exactly what to do, while still being in a fairytale form and speaking in third party fashion to address the concerns they can be offended and alienated by us telling them what to do directly.

The young Jurgen have traveled wide and long to see the world and search for wisdom. He met a stranger in the barren place where mountains meet the frozen river in the north and after inviting him to share his camp fire, the stranger told the following to the young warrior:

"Stay a while and listen! I've been a general in many great wars in my years. Some of them we fought on technological parity and it was relatively easy. But in some others, unfortunate we were at severe disadvantage, having to fight with axes versus maces and chariots versus dressed in steel knights. But instead of despair and accepting our fate and certain defeat, we did something smarter and more worthy of respect. We teched to Horse Archers and slaved tens of citizens to those brave soldiers in our distant cities, while slaving catapults in our border ones. We cracked the whip mercilessly and despite more than half of our population were slaved away, we assembled them together and the seemingly unbeatable till then invaders were crushed easily and only their bones whitening in the soil mark where once was the mightiest army of macemen, knights and catapults the world had seen."

This the stranger said and a smile ran trough his face, as he was hoping the young warrior to have had learned something precious which could have save his nation one day.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Send it I say, if you think it will help. RB will not attack if they can't win, but maybe Germans can pull off some miracle or even better, bog RB down in some drawn out affair where egos and emotion start to take over

 

[YossarianLives]

Yeah I agree we can send it. I like the roleplaying flavor, too.

Hopefully the Germans can put up a spirited defense. If they can just delay RB's conquest a little bit, that may be enough to keep their army out of position when we are ready to attack. I doubt they can hold out against RB any better than the Spaniards can hold out against us, though.

Which makes me think, I wonder if RB is sending a similar message to the Spaniards right about now...

 

[2metraninja]

Which makes me think, I wonder if RB is sending a similar message to the Spaniards right about now...

LOL, I wont be surprised at all. Would be good play on their side. But our horse is way better than RB's. Germans have much more cities and they actually have money to tech Archery and HBR, where the Spaniards don't.

 

[2metraninja]

Sent.

 

[2metraninja]

LOL, Germans realised AT LAST that they are the target and sent mails to CP and Apolyton asking for help. Sigh... we told them 10 days ago. Ot4e said they at last SAW the RB stack and REALIZED they are the target...

Maga, some comment about how saying things explicit is not necessary at all?