Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

[Caledorn]

We should tell them "Ok, in the spirit of compromise you can settle at {U1 spot} to get the Ivory."

I don't like using the word "compromise" at this time. We need to be a bit obeiscant at the moment, to sweeten things as much as possible as we really need this NAP.

I suggest something along the lines of "We were not aware of the Ivory resource. We have no objections to you settling a city at {U1}, and we hope you have no objections to us settling at {X1}, as we need the marble near that spot. If you do object to us settling there feel free to let us know, and we can work out a different arrangement."

 

[Sommerswerd]

The most important thing to tell them is that:
1. They get the Ivory
2. We have a NAP effective immediately

I would say send this now and we can continue discussing the rest:

Hi UCiv,

We will be sending you a more detailed message soon, but we wanted to confirm that we agree that you will have the rights to connect the Ivory. With that settled, we consider us having a NAP as of this turn (Turn 108).

Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

The most important thing to tell them is that:
1. They get the Ivory
2. We have a NAP effective immediately

I would say send this now and we can continue discussing the rest:

I agree.

I will send your suggestion right away actually, since this is so important. We can discuss the details for our followup message, but you elegantly put the core of it into that.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Just noticed that I got the turn wrong. Its turn 108 not turn 140 right? And how long is our NAP with UCiv?

 

[Caledorn]

Just noticed that I got the turn wrong. Its turn 108 not turn 140 right? And how long is our NAP with UCiv?

Good point. Yes, it is turn 108. And I am embarrassed to admit I am uncertain when our NAP with them expires. Can you check the Diplomacy Log, and also suggest a duration for a new NAP that I can include?

 

[Maga_R]

The most important thing to tell them is that:
1. They get the Ivory
2. We have a NAP effective immediately

I would say send this now and we can continue discussing the rest:

Exactly

 

[Caledorn]

This is what I am sending to UCiv right now:

Bonjour Team UCiv,

We will send you a more detailed message soon, but we just want to confirm that we agree that we will not have any objections to your team connecting the Ivory by settling in the previously suggested non-settling area. We will come back to you with very soon with some suggestions for where you can settle a city to minimize any interference with our future settling plans.

With that settled, we consider a NAP in effect between our teams as of this turn (Turn 108) until T140.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC on behalf of Ambassador Talonschild

And don't worry talonschild - I have no intentions of taking over your Ambassadorial duties towards UCiv. It's just important that we get this message sent out right away, as I am sure you understand

 

[Maga_R]

Cal, I am so glad you sent this message! Now that we have NAP with UCiv, dealing with Spaniards should be easy, considering their strange manner of conducting war

 

[whb]

Tomorrow morning I will make a map to send to them.

Not unless one of us has teched paper, otherwise perhaps the other teams will be on to us for cheating?

 

[Caledorn]

Not unless one of us has teched paper, otherwise perhaps the other teams will be on to us for cheating?

Good point that. It should be enough to use simple statements like 6-6, 6-3 or 3-2 from the ivory resource. I believe I saw them use something like that in their own message.

 

[2metraninja]

The map was going to be schematic with pictures of mountains, jungles and blue lines for rivers, not a screenshot one.

 

[2metraninja]

We need to remember we have agreed to deliver Marble to RB and we agreed to not sign any agreement which to interfere with it. So either we send quick message to Uciv telling them they can settle U1 or U3, or if they decide to settle somewhere else, we will need to raze Kwa Dukuza or think of another way to get Marble so we can fulfill our agreements.

 

[Caledorn]

The map was going to be schematic with pictures of mountains, jungles and blue lines for rivers, not a screenshot one.

I am afraid the other teams and the admin could consider that a map, although a drawn one. I suggest we use the number-system just to be on the safe side.

I am fine with telling them they can settle on either if those two spots, but would like a bit more feedback. I think we can give it until tonight to send a message to them about that.

A word of caution though: Just because we have stated that we consider a NAP to be in effect does not equal that UCiv thinks the same. We need their confirmation before a NAP is truly in place.

 

[Maga_R]

We need to remember we have agreed to deliver Marble to RB and we agreed to not sign any agreement which to interfere with it.

I thought we agreed to deliver it only if we have it - not to secure it by certain turn?

 

[2metraninja]

I'm quite sure we promised it, just the timeframe was to be decided between t120 and t150.

 

[Sommerswerd]

This seems a bit of a complex stretch, but what if this whole mess is ends up getting us in bad with RB by forcing us to break the NAP by failing to deliver Marble (allowing RB to attack us early)?

 

[Sommerswerd]

It could be that UCiv is dealing with us and Spaniards, making them think UCiv will join them to attack CFC, while secretly signing a NAP with us.

If UCiv wanted to conquer SpAp, and invaded them, they would be worried about us attacking them while their back is turned, yes?

But if UCiv convinces SpAp to attack us by implying that they will join the attack, then UCiv signs NAP with us, this leaves UCiv free to go after SpAp without interference from us. In fact UCiv can wait for us to weaken SpAp's defenses, then come take what they want from SpAp with ease.

 

[2metraninja]

This seems a bit of a complex stretch, but what if this whole mess is ends up getting us in bad with RB by forcing us to break the NAP by failing to deliver Marble (allowing RB to attack us early)?

Yeah, interesting plot, but I think it is not very possible. Why would RB wanted NAP till t200 then? Just as we do, they hope to be done with conquering 1-2 neighbors to t170, but they are just not sure and they want a bit more time safe back from us.

 

[2metraninja]

If UCiv wanted to conquer SpAp, and invaded them, they would be worried about us attacking them while their back is turned, yes?

Of course. And we would had to intervene. 2 big and 1 small kingdoms.

Seems Spaniards have not read Sun Tsu or at least dont think his words hold wisdom LOL

 

[2metraninja]

But if UCiv convinces SpAp to attack us by implying that they will join the attack, then UCiv signs NAP with us, this leaves UCiv free to go after SpAp without interference from us. In fact UCiv can wait for us to weaken SpAp's defenses, then come take what they want from SpAp with ease.

Uciv is no better prepared for war than us. They have no invading army assembled. But sure they might think they can snatch a Spanish city or two from us.

My main impression of Uciv is those guys are quite cautious in their play. Being it because they have no big experience with MP and diplomacy with humans, or because of some other reason. They look to me quite introvert. See how they handled our proposal about no-settling border area. We proposed it with the clear understanding it will deny them settling a city to compete with our Marble city for the sugar and the river valley. If they were pro-active and extroverts, they would have came to us and say: "Merde! Then how we will settle a city of ours to claim les elephants?". Instead they started to think of a way to settle their elephant city without settling in the no-settling-area. And when we come to them for third time offering outright ransom for them signing the NAP, they dont say: "OK, if you are proposing them, we will take those workers, missionary, settlers, some sum of gold and you allow us to settle in the best for us way in the no-settling area" They just say "sorry for being slow AGAIN" and express their worries about why they did not accepted the NAP earlier and they ask if we can think of some way to go around this, so they can settle their Elephant city. This is actually really generous and nice on their side, not to take advantage of the fact that we are attacked on one front already.