Free speech or not, that is the question

[Berzerker]

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/01/2...ter-calling-for-obama-to-be-tried-and-hanged/

It wont be around much longer if people can expect a visit from men in badges. Hell, I remember posting something about Bush being impeached for lying us into war and how they'd execute him 200 years ago (if guilty ). How did the SS miss that one?

oops, did I just call the secret service the SS?

Seriously, you cant even say the Prez should be arrested and executed for committing crimes? Where was this guy back when Bush was lying us into wars?

oops, did I just accuse a former Prez of committing a crime for which he might be executed?

Now I can understand if his comments about Obama - whom I love like a brother (did you hear me NSA) - raise an eyebrow since he suggested ignoring the constitutionally prescribed manner for charging a Prez, but he didn't cross the line and that should be obvious.

oops, did I just suggest the SS lacks the intelligence to see what is or isn't obvious?

I didn't mean that, boys - you do a good job!

edited to remove material unapproved by the gubmint

 

[timtofly]

In 1776 the US declared: Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

First the US decided that having a creator was not needed. Then in 1973 the US took away the right to life. Since then the government has been taking away our liberties. When only a few happy people are left, the US Independence will have run it's course.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That's the problem with working for the Secret Service. You have to track down every single nut who doesn't know better than to make such silly comments. Not just the ones who pose legitimate threats which you are supposed to somehow innately know without investigating them.

 

[Berzerker]

but the guy aint a nut from what I can see, just guilty of hyperbole

Jonathan Turley

 

[BvBPL]

Does an interview, with no legal charge or even arrest, actually constitute a free speech issue?

 

[JollyRoger]

The Secret Service was just advocating its free speech rights and was giving the man a chance to speak even more than he already had.

 

[Evie]

Sorry, but that kind of comment certainly warrant attention. Because that *is* the mindset that may result in a genuine assassination attempt, and the US has a history of those.

The secret service making sure you were being rethorical and/or not having any criminal intent toward the president....its their job. Of course that doesn't always necessitate an interview, bit interviews can be a legit way to do that.

Besides which, death threats and call for death are at the hazy edge of free speech (like libel) to begin with, and are in fact can be out and out banned depending on circumstances.

 

[JollyRoger]

Was he not worth a drone?

 

[Berzerker]

Does an interview, with no legal charge or even arrest, actually constitute a free speech issue?

free means without coercion, if people are worried their opinions will bring men with badges to the door they'll be less inclined to speak up

 

[Evie]

Except that like every right it's not unlimited. And when you start saying someone needs to die you approach such a limit.

 

[JollyRoger]

free means without coercion, if people are worried their opinions will bring men with badges to the door they'll be less inclined to speak up

It seems this guy still mouthed off while likely being aware of the general history of the Secret Service in investigating mouthing off.

 

[Berzerker]

he didn't say he would assassinate the Prez, he said the Prez should be arrested and hanged for his crimes

 

[Berzerker]

It seems this guy still mouthed off while likely being aware of the general history of the Secret Service in investigating mouthing off.

your assumption aside, mouthing off aint a crime

 

[JollyRoger]

I'm sure a lot of conservative fantasize about President Obama being hung.

your assumption aside, mouthing off aint a crime

And an interview is not an arrest.

 

[Evie]

he didn't say he would assassinate the Prez, he said the Prez should be arrested and hanged for his crimes

And you honestly think that's not the exact mindset of people who would actually try and kill him?

I mean, statistically, Obama is rather unlikely to be murdered by someone who DON'T think Obama should die.

 

[BvBPL]

free means without coercion, if people are worried their opinions will bring men with badges to the door they'll be less inclined to speak up

Men with badges knocking down the door certainly is coercive. However, knocking on the door and freely engaging the party in a conversation is insufficiently coercive to amount to a challenge to free speech.

Police, the FBI, the Secret Service, MI-5, and other law enforcement agencies come around to knock on people's doors because of what the residents said all the time. Often times they do so to interview witnesses or potential witness to crimes. In that capacity, the ability of law enforcement, read: men in badges, to knock on doors is critical to maintaining public safety.

Now obviously here the situation is a bit different because the speaker is not a witness but voicing what I guess is a political / pseudo-legal opinion. The speaker is, of course, totally entitled to that opinion and to express it.

However, it must be acknowledged that some people who call for the execution of the President of the US are nutty, crazy kooks that may pose a public danger. As such, it seems valid for the Secret Service to come around, knock on a door, and reckon whether or not the speaker could be a danger.

Again, the interview is a far cry from arrest the guy.

 

[Berzerker]

And an interview is not an arrest.

Freedom is the absence of coercion or constraint, sending agents around to "interview" people falls under the former.

And you honestly think that's not the exact mindset of people who would actually try and kill him?

So what? We'd never impeach a Prez based on that logic, cant say he committed a crime or someone might try to assassinate him. Cant say anything bad, someone might try to kill him.

Men with badges knocking down the door certainly is coercive. However, knocking on the door and freely engaging the party in a conversation is insufficiently coercive to amount to a challenge to free speech.

You're confusing force with coercion too

 

[Ajidica]

Freedom is the absence of coercion or constraint, sending agents around to "interview" people falls under the former.

I dunno. If I am making an advertisement for toothpaste, falsely claim it will allow you to become a Time Lord or a Noldor, and am prosecuted for fraud, free speech still exists even though certain elements of mine has been constrained.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/01/2...ter-calling-for-obama-to-be-tried-and-hanged/

It wont be around much longer if people can expect a visit from men in badges. Hell, I remember posting something about Bush being impeached for lying us into war and how they'd execute him 200 years ago (if guilty ). How did the SS miss that one?

oops, did I just call the secret service the SS?

Seriously, you cant even say the Prez should be arrested and executed for committing crimes? Where was this guy back when Bush was lying us into wars?

oops, did I just accuse a former Prez of committing a crime for which he might be executed?

Now I can understand if his comments about Obama - whom I love like a brother (did you hear me NSA) - raise an eyebrow since he suggested ignoring the constitutionally prescribed manner for charging a Prez, but he didn't cross the line and that should be obvious.

oops, did I just suggest the SS lacks the intelligence to see what is or isn't obvious?

I didn't mean that, boys - you do a good job!

edited to remove material unapproved by the gubmint

I'm constantly croggled at the extent to which this "free speech" concept seems to be worshiped in the U.S. I'm not up on the current Canadian laws regarding people publicly advocating that the Prime Minister be assassinated, but if anybody is stupid enough to actually do it they should expect the consequences, as I'm sure the RCMP would take a dim view of it.

In 1776 the US declared: Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

First the US decided that having a creator was not needed. Then in 1973 the US took away the right to life. Since then the government has been taking away our liberties. When only a few happy people are left, the US Independence will have run it's course.

Which translates into "how dare you establish separation of church and state!" and "OMG, they're giving pregnant women the right to decide for themselves if they want to continue the pregnancy - you think it was their body, and not under their husband/boyfriend's control!"

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I thought it was common knowledge that you're not allowed to call for the president'S death.


<snip>

Moderator Action: deleted unnecessary video link - it's borderline and didn't add anything to the conversation beyond what you've already said. We don't joke around with this stuff. >Link to video.