Future Update - Speculation Thread

[Atlas627]

They haven't said anything at all. That has you irritated, but the fact is that you should have nothing to be irritated about! If you weren't a CivFanatic you would have never known that there was anything coming down the pipeline at all! They didn't get your hopes up with a teaser and then ruin them by going silent, they have been silent the whole time and thus you can only have yourself to blame for getting your own hopes up and then feeling disappointed.

When they are ready to say something they will. If after that announcement they stop communicating to the point where you feel let down, that will be a different story.

 

[timmychompchomp]

Your loss. Someone acknowledging on here "Yes we're working on something" wouldn't change anything. We already know something is coming.

They haven't announced the content or advertised it because they aren't ready to. It's not a personal insult to you or anyone else.

Old World was advertised mere weeks before its release next week.

Humankind's run-up may prove to be premature as everything is still presented with "prealpha" disclaimers. If the game doesn't come out until like Q4 the hype train may peter out.

Civ will be announced when they're close to completion.

Obviously I have deemed it an acceptable loss and it is also a very meager loss of revenue for Firaxis and 2K.

Acknowledgement and some info could have made all the difference. I would know if what they were selling was something I wanted to purchase and how it stacks up to the new competition. I have info on Old World and Humankind. Civ 6? I have the PR firm of Eagle Pursuit and Willowbrook, others as well. No shade to them, I love what they do for the community.

I have very limited resources so the marketing and information presented, no matter the state or the release date, has intrigued or excited me enough to purchase both titles and forego the unknown quantity that is Civ 6.

I have run out of patience, holding back my finite resources in hope of news. I am purchasing Old World on May 5th, I like what I see and I need entertainment now. I will purchase Humankind when it releases because I am intrigued and I have had nothing to compare it to and I am now certain I want to give it a try. So with the emergence of Old World, Civ is the odd man out. My finances cannot support all three franchises, although I do not know the cost of whatever it is Firaxis is working on.

On an emotional level I feel a bit taken for granted by Firaxis and 2K. Two rivals emerge and you stay mum on your plans. This is the emotional portion of the situation which is a factor, but not the deciding factor. The true deciding factor is money. I want Old World now, I really want to try Humankind, and my go to has taken me for granted. I think many people who do not have large amounts of expendable income might feel similarly.

I posted my original comment here knowing they view these forums.

Moderator Action: <<SNIP>>

They haven't said anything at all. That has you irritated, but the fact is that you should have nothing to be irritated about! If you weren't a CivFanatic you would have never known that there was anything coming down the pipeline at all! They didn't get your hopes up with a teaser and then ruin them by going silent, they have been silent the whole time and thus you can only have yourself to blame for getting your own hopes up and then feeling disappointed.

When they are ready to say something they will. If after that announcement they stop communicating to the point where you feel let down, that will be a different story.

Moderator Action: <<SNIP>> You're factually misguided as well. All I have to say is "We're still not done" - Dennis Shirk, 8 months ago.

Moderator Action: Please do not characterize the posts of others to diminish them. That is trolling. I have removed those sentences from your post. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Atlas627]

"We're still not done" - Dennis Shirk, 8 months ago.

Who did he say that to and in what context?

I have read many interviews that suggested they were still working on Civ6, yes. They never said anything was going to happen soon, nor have they promised that anything will happen at all. They said, awhile back, that they were still working on Civ6. For you to feel that they have let you down in some way means you made assumptions off of those statements that they did not mean.

Feel free to spend your limited finances on the other games because they announced first. That is totally reasonable! I too have already pre-ordered Old World, and if my funds are limited when Humankind/Civ6 finally allow me to purchase something then whichever comes first will get it. The feelings of being taken for granted are simply self-entitlement, though.

 

[Inawordyes]

Do you think they’ll populate any of the depots before revealing whatever is coming, or will they stay empty until post-reveal? I don’t recall how it was for the previous DLCs/Xpacs

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Do you think they’ll populate any of the depots before revealing whatever is coming, or will they stay empty until post-reveal? I don’t recall how it was for the previous DLCs/Xpacs

All of this is completely novel. It's hard to say how exactly it will play out.

 

[timmychompchomp]

Who did he say that to and in what context?

I have read many interviews that suggested they were still working on Civ6, yes. They never said anything was going to happen soon, nor have they promised that anything will happen at all. They said, awhile back, that they were still working on Civ6. For you to feel that they have let you down in some way means you made assumptions off of those statements that they did not mean.

Feel free to spend your limited finances on the other games because they announced first. That is totally reasonable! I too have already pre-ordered Old World, and if my funds are limited when Humankind/Civ6 finally allow me to purchase something then whichever comes first will get it. The feelings of being taken for granted are simply self-entitlement, though.

He said it at the end of the Red Death livestream. He also encouraged feedback, he said that they love hearing from us. This forum is my go to since I have seen here responses and comments from the producers themselves.

The way you have analyzed my comments are logical but my comments, as I hope I indicated, are my personal feelings about the situation.

It is clear that my financial situation plays a major role. I will purchase Old World. Between Civ 6 and Humankind, I am choosing Humankind. Although I have no idea when it will release, I feel taken for granted of by Firaxis and that has tipped the scales in Humankinds favor. I personally feel 8 months time was long enough to wait for information. It is an emotional decision, but I let my pocket book communicate when it comes to my interactions with businesses. I don’t like your service, your product, or price, I do not buy and try the competition. I also voice my opinion in a respectful way up until I feel I am being dismissed.

I do not expect you to agree or do the same. I am aware it is not logical and can be seen as self entitled. Self entitlement, with in reason, is valid when consuming products. As I stated previously, I feel 8 months time is reasonable to voice a self entitled opinion and make a decision based on the communication practices of a business that wishes me to continue consuming their product.

Maybe voicing my personal opinion and perspective on the situation on a public forum was a mistake. I feel like thats what everyone here does. I felt Firaxis would value the opinion of a customer, and others might feel similarly.

 

[Atlas627]

He said it at the end of the Red Death livestream. He also encouraged feedback, he said that they love hearing from us. This forum is my go to since I have seen here responses and comments from the producers themselves.

The way you have analyzed my comments are logical but my comments, as I hope I indicated, are my personal feelings about the situation.

It is clear that my financial situation plays a major role. I will purchase Old World. Between Civ 6 and Humankind, I am choosing Humankind. Although I have no idea when it will release, I feel taken for granted of by Firaxis and that has tipped the scales in Humankinds favor. I personally feel 8 months time was long enough to wait for information. It is an emotional decision, but I let my pocket book communicate when it comes to my interactions with businesses. I don’t like your service, your product, or price, I do not buy and try the competition. I also voice my opinion in a respectful way up until I feel I am being dismissed.

I do not expect you to agree or do the same. I am aware it is not logical and can be seen as self entitled. Self entitlement, with in reason, is valid when consuming products. As I stated previously, I feel 8 months time is reasonable to voice a self entitled opinion and make a decision based on the communication practices of a business that wishes me to continue consuming their product.

Maybe voicing my personal opinion and perspective on the situation on a public forum was a mistake. I feel like thats what everyone here does. I felt Firaxis would value the opinion of a customer, and others might feel similarly.

Given that you already feel entitled, I agree it is reasonable to express your displeasure to the developer, since direct feedback is much more helpful (aka obvious) than 1 less sale in a sea of sales. And bringing that opinion to a forum is perfectly fine, since the whole point of a forum is to discuss things. That includes those responding to you as I and others have done.

I hope your financial situation improves and you can enjoy all 3 products as you wish.

 

[acluewithout]

I’m generally on the side of people shouldn’t feel entitled about Video Games. They’re just video games; the designers are nearly always doing they’re best (particularly true for Firaxis) but have to also work within resource requirements and commercial realities; and anyways stuff takes time, is hard to get right, and very hard to make everyone happy all the time.

Firaxis aren’t big talkers, and right or wrong, good marketing or bad, that’s the way it is with them. I’ve mostly been pretty happy with communication until now, except maybe for that 12 month period where they just kept smashing and nerfing England (but hey, they gave us an Alt Leader and an Iron Start bias to say sorry).

But I do think the current silence and delay has been a bit rubbish. It’s not just it’s gone on for so long. It’s that, at this point, the game has been out since 2016 but still has obvious areas where it’s missing content and polish. FXS have suggested obliquely that they plan to address some or all of this stuff, and there’s every reason to think they will... but then deafening silence.

Civ VI feels very much like it was designed and intended to have a Third Expansion, and there was every indication that would happen. But over the past 6 months it’s got very unclear what’s happening, and there’s a suggestion FXS might short change a Third Exp for more limited DLC instead. To be clear, FXS never promised a 3XP, and whether Civ VI feels “complete” is very subjective, of course, but to me it feels the game is very good as it is but is still fundamentally not done. If it’s going to just be a half-finished game, then okay, so be it. But it’s the ongoing uncertainty and mixed messages that’s frustrating. I mean, this is hardly a Half-Life Episode 3 kinda situation, but it is still quite frustrating.

I mean, I’ve been following all these other 4X games - HumanKind, Old World, Pax Nova - and while they all seem to have various good ideas, none of them are really doing anything different to Civ VI, and Civ VI even as it is seems just better. I’ll try to buy them to support developers, but I can’t really see myself playing them. Really, the only competitor to Civ VI I’ve found is EUIV, which is a really great game with great development and lots of flavour and I’m really looking forward to playing it just as soon as I can actually work out how on earth I do, you know, actually “play it”...

But this is just media in general, isn’t it? I’d like a Hellboy 3, but ain’t gonna happen and instead I get some stupid reboot. Some people are waiting for some fat old bearded medieval amateur historian with a dinky hat to finish his epic Lord of the Rings meets The Purge, but that’s not going to happen either. And, Jesus, don’t start me on bands that won’t release another album or indie comics that died prematurely (Platinum Grit, I’m looking at you).

It’s just a drag. And it’s not unreasonable for people to be frustrated, or to come here and express that frustration to some extent, although I appreciate whining is unproductive, FXS don’t owe anyone anything, and people are free to (and at some point should) walk away and do something else (... you know, subject to shelter in place / lockdown, which is a whole other thing..).

But if we wait all this time just to get Portugal, some other Random Civs, and a new Melee Unit, it’s going to be very irritating. That would be really quite, quite, quite tedious.

 

[Gedemon]

And it’s not unreasonable for people to be frustrated, or to come here and express that frustration to some extent, although I appreciate whining is unproductive, FXS don’t owe anyone anything, and people are free to (and at some point should) walk away and do something else (... you know, subject to shelter in place / lockdown, which is a whole other thing..).

Well, I think they still owe me the modding platform I thought I was buying back in 2016. Still hoping that I've not picked the wrong game to do my magnum opus, but lesson learned, I won't even start modding anything for the next iteration if they do not communicate before release what they plan for modding exactly.

Because it's one thing to lose a few € on a game, it's another to waste a lot of free time on it.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/civilization-6-interview-strategy-mods

Phil Iwaniuk - 1365 days ago

We are going to be talking in more detail about modding further down the road.

As usual, a big emphasis on modding

Yeah, I know, I should be more patient, what's 1365 days ?

Just a few hundred more and maybe we'll get some details...

 

[MAHRana]

I won't even start modding anything for the next iteration if they do not communicate before release what they plan for modding exactly.

Because it's one thing to lose a few € on a game, it's another to waste a lot of free time on it.

Yeah stuff like this I don't fully understand, esp. considering the huge potential of modding for even this particular iteration as well as its general centrality to the franchise.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Well, I think they still owe me the modding platform I thought I was buying back in 2016. Still hoping that I've not picked the wrong game to do my magnum opus, but lesson learned, I won't even start modding anything for the next iteration if they do not communicate before release what they plan for modding exactly.

Would a mod from the source code work on platforms other then windows?

 

[Gedemon]

Would a mod from the source code work on platforms other then windows?

Only Aspyr could answer that, I've read people writing about DLL equivalent for Mac/Linux. No for previous versions of the game.

But while I'm always asking for it, it's not the only modding issue, it just happen to solve most at once.

sometime at the cost of losing cross-platform:
- fix for exploit in MP that can't be solved by Lua without waiting for an official patch
- overhaul of GameCore features for Total Conversions
- tactical AI modding
- diplomacy modding
- combat rules modding
- nUPT modding
- add methods that were available for GamePlay modding in civ5 without the DLL source and are still missing for civ6

sometime not affecting it
- complete documentation of the API
- crash fixing complexe Lua mods without using the tedious trial/error method

Now let me repeat something, civ6 was made from the ground up for modding, it shows. But its current state is incredibly frustrating, right now it's like I'm looking at a Ferrari 250 GTO, have the keys in my hand, can start the engine, but it has no front wheels.

 

[bbbt]

Only Aspyr could answer that, I've read people writing about DLL equivalent for Mac/Linux. No for previous versions of the game.

Though presumably if Aspyr also released the equivalent Mac/Linux source code, cross platform MODs could be made? Assuming modders had the inclination of course.

 

[RohirrimElf]

Could it be that game developers are afraid of what dota did to blizzard. You use the engine from someone elses game and do something better with it. Making it more succesfull then the original game. Therefore civ 6 modding support has been marginalized.

To me it always feels like modders can work much faster and delivers what we always wanted. Compared to firaxis work speed. Sometimes it feels that 1 dedicated modder can replace 10 firaxis developers.

i highly respect your work Gedemon. And i would feel very sad if you cant build your dream project from civ 6. Civ 6 still has a lot of potential.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I wonder if 2K got on their case about giving silly codenames to the DLC apps.

 

[josgre987]

DLC 19 has yet to be named.

 

[Neirai]

Sometimes it feels that 1 dedicated modder can replace 10 firaxis developers.

It's because we're literally not doing the necessary work of maybe 20 firaxis developers?

We're cutting out translation teams, design teams, project owners, sound teams, graphical engineering teams, multiplayer "netcode" teams... pretty much nobody can veto what we are doing and we also have no need or desire to have a visibility to what we might be breaking.

Mod stability is usually abysmal even for the mods that we all believe work

Oh and I forgot legal teams and marketing teams and community management teams.

Usually us modders hold our self to the high high standard of "it worked on my box so I uploaded it to steam" but real game developers can't afford to do that.

 

[pokiehl]

It's because we're literally not doing the necessary work of maybe 20 firaxis developers?

We're cutting out translation teams, design teams, project owners, sound teams, graphical engineering teams, multiplayer "netcode" teams... pretty much nobody can veto what we are doing and we also have no need or desire to have a visibility to what we might be breaking.

Mod stability is usually abysmal even for the mods that we all believe work

Oh and I forgot legal teams and marketing teams and community management teams.

Usually us modders hold our self to the high high standard of "it worked on my box so I uploaded it to steam" but real game developers can't afford to do that.

Bingo! Don't forget we're entirely cutting out QA and version control issues. And of course numerous other factors that we, as people not working in game development, are not privy to.

You're absolutely right - modders vs AAA studio developers working with a multi-million dollar publisher isn't an apples-to-apples comparison whatsoever.

 

[Neirai]

It's because we're literally not doing the necessary work of maybe 20 firaxis developers?

We're cutting out translation teams, design teams, project owners, sound teams, graphical engineering teams, multiplayer "netcode" teams... pretty much nobody can veto what we are doing and we also have no need or desire to have a visibility to what we might be breaking.

Mod stability is usually abysmal even for the mods that we all believe work

Oh and I forgot legal teams and marketing teams and community management teams.

Usually us modders hold our self to the high high standard of "it worked on my box so I uploaded it to steam" but real game developers can't afford to do that.

Oh yeah, additional ranty point (sorry to be ranty!) whatever mod stability we achieve is usually because of Firaxis devs building a relatively adaptable platform already.

Bingo! Don't forget we're entirely cutting out QA and version control issues. And of course numerous other factors that we, as people not working in game development, are not privy to.

You're absolutely right - modders vs AAA studio developers working with a multi-million dollar publisher isn't an apples-to-apples comparison whatsoever.

Part of this is because nobody comes to us and says "I paid $130 for this and it doesn't work".

 

[Jeppetto]

DLC 19 has yet to be named.

Such was the case with the others too, there was delay between them being added and named