Thorgalaeg
Deity
Thanks. The Beijing time was specially useful.
Game of thrones: Final Season: Winter finally arrives....
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
- Start date
Wait?? There's other countries besides Murica and Jienah???Thanks. The Beijing time was specially useful.
CFC is an international forum and to our OZian members Beijing time might have meaning.Thanks. The Beijing time was specially useful.
It was a fine ending for "not the books". As usual, what they left out was Bran. The last scenes should have included him following Drogon and landing in a high nest full of dragon eggs! I enjoyed how they handled the ending they choose. It was a good send off.
The chairs?
BirraImperial
Pura Vida!
Oh boy, the leaks were real...LMAO I don't even know where to start...This is terrible, like Dexter-level terrible...
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
Jon snow literally became a lumberjack....
I didn't see that coming... as usual... well I saw the Dany thing coming, but the rest... no. Entertaining as usual. Great series overall, and I appreciate the efforts of all the cast etc.
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It was actually a pretty good episode..considering final episodes are for the most part anti-climatic. This is a series I've been with for the better part of 20 years..long before the show. I was left absolutely numb by the last episode (epi 5). It did not even really pizz me off as much as just left me stone cold. I'd always been a Dany fan. For the better part of last week I was numb, although I made some jokes with my Father (who knows jack about the series other than I love it), after he sent me Op Eds about parents who named their kids Dany or Kahleesi. However, it was during this episode that I actually did a lot of reflection. GRRM always subverted expectations. It's really what made his books such classics and drove people to actually make a show about it. I assume, in part, some of these outcomes were included in GRRM's outline to D&D. In many ways...now...I see it makes sense. The issue though is that D&D did not give it enough time to percolate with the viewer. There were signs indeed, but we - the viewer - needed more along the way. Still, if one takes time and really thinks about it, Dany was the greatest subversion of the Song of Ice and Fire..it was the ultimate subversion. There was a certain genius to that. Too bad the TV series did not allow a bit more time for it to be more effective.
But..the last episode ...in and of itself...while no classic...served its purpose in context and did okay with it.
But..the last episode ...in and of itself...while no classic...served its purpose in context and did okay with it.
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MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I thought it was alright, not perfect, but better than expected based on bad decisions made in the last two seasons.
I was really hoping that Denaerys's corpse would be placed on the Iron Throne to make it her funeral pyre, but I guess having it melted down and her body carried away by Drogon is acceptable.
Having Bran see Drogon attending a clutch of eggs in the ruins of Valyria (or perhaps the part of the Dothraki Sea where he was born) would have been great.
I cannot believe I am saying this, but there was actually a point where I wish D&D had included a dick joke. When Grey Worm says that being made to serve as Hand is not punishment enough for Tyrion, I wanted Bran to tell them "then you may also cut off his manhood, and feed it to the goats...unless you'd rather I find a cock merchant."
After Grey Worm told the Unsullied that they were sailing for Naath, I really wanted to see a Butterfly land on on him. That would mean nothing to casual show watchers, but it would remind us book fans that they are doomed to die from one of the most horrifying disease imaginable.
When Arya asked what is west of Westeros and is told that no one knows, I really wanted Sam to pipe in to pedantically point out that in 56 AC Lady Elissa Farman, sailing under the alias Alys Westhill discovered three small islands (which she named Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya) several weeks' travel away from Oldtown, slightly farther south than the latitude of the Summer Isles, and at a longitude much farther west than even Lonely Light. He should also mention that when Ser Corlys "The Sea Snake" Velaryon sailed east to Asshai-by-the-Shadow on the second of his nine great voyages, he spotted an old and much weathered ship which he insisted was her flagship the Sun Chaser.
I really wish the crown of the North looked more like that of Robb or the Kings of Winter in the book, with Iron sword-like spikes on a bronze ring. Sansa's vine-like crown looked more fitting for a ruler of the Reach.
It did not seem right referring to it as the Six Kingdoms. Someone also should have pointed out that they can still call the realm the Seven kingdoms even without the North, as they were called the Seven Kingdoms before Dorne joined them. Seven was always more of a symbolic number than proper math. There were arguably 9 kingdoms when it included the Crownlands, Dorne, the Stormlands, the Iron Islands, the Reach, the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the Maintains and the Vale, and the North.
It was strongly implied but should have been made clearer than Brienne and Podrick are now on the Kingsguard. They needed white armor or at least white cloaks.
I'm disappointed that they gave Bron not only High Garden but the attendant titles of Lord Paramount of the Reach, Warden of the South, etc. They did not promise him anything but the castle that was formerly the seat of the Gardner Kings and their Stewards whom Aegon made great lords. They never agreed to give him over lordship over the many vassals who feudal dues would be necessary to maintain such a home. I wanted Tyrion to honor his word the way Tywin did for the Freys when he gave him Riverrun but made them submit to a new Lord Paramount with a different seat. I would have preferred they confirm Cersei's decision to make House Tarly of Hornhill the new master of the Reach, so Bron would be paying taxes to Sam. Bron never deserved so much wealth, power, or screentime. It would serve him right to gain only a white elephant gift of a castle that would leave him poorer than before.
When Bron asked Davos "You master of Grammar now too " I wanted Tyrion to say something like "Yes. I have just created the position. It comes with the power to fine any member of this council for any slip ups." Bron might then stark to curse him out, at which point Tyrion would add that the Master of Grammar can also fine him for any vulgar language improper for his lofty station. Bron would throw him a sack of gold to prepay in advance.
In their discussion of Brothels I wanted someone to repeat Littlefinger's line about how they were a safer investment than ships, because they never sink and that the pirate that board them pay good coin like anyone else.
I was really hoping that Denaerys's corpse would be placed on the Iron Throne to make it her funeral pyre, but I guess having it melted down and her body carried away by Drogon is acceptable.
Having Bran see Drogon attending a clutch of eggs in the ruins of Valyria (or perhaps the part of the Dothraki Sea where he was born) would have been great.
I cannot believe I am saying this, but there was actually a point where I wish D&D had included a dick joke. When Grey Worm says that being made to serve as Hand is not punishment enough for Tyrion, I wanted Bran to tell them "then you may also cut off his manhood, and feed it to the goats...unless you'd rather I find a cock merchant."
After Grey Worm told the Unsullied that they were sailing for Naath, I really wanted to see a Butterfly land on on him. That would mean nothing to casual show watchers, but it would remind us book fans that they are doomed to die from one of the most horrifying disease imaginable.
When Arya asked what is west of Westeros and is told that no one knows, I really wanted Sam to pipe in to pedantically point out that in 56 AC Lady Elissa Farman, sailing under the alias Alys Westhill discovered three small islands (which she named Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya) several weeks' travel away from Oldtown, slightly farther south than the latitude of the Summer Isles, and at a longitude much farther west than even Lonely Light. He should also mention that when Ser Corlys "The Sea Snake" Velaryon sailed east to Asshai-by-the-Shadow on the second of his nine great voyages, he spotted an old and much weathered ship which he insisted was her flagship the Sun Chaser.
I really wish the crown of the North looked more like that of Robb or the Kings of Winter in the book, with Iron sword-like spikes on a bronze ring. Sansa's vine-like crown looked more fitting for a ruler of the Reach.
It did not seem right referring to it as the Six Kingdoms. Someone also should have pointed out that they can still call the realm the Seven kingdoms even without the North, as they were called the Seven Kingdoms before Dorne joined them. Seven was always more of a symbolic number than proper math. There were arguably 9 kingdoms when it included the Crownlands, Dorne, the Stormlands, the Iron Islands, the Reach, the Westerlands, the Riverlands, the Maintains and the Vale, and the North.
It was strongly implied but should have been made clearer than Brienne and Podrick are now on the Kingsguard. They needed white armor or at least white cloaks.
I'm disappointed that they gave Bron not only High Garden but the attendant titles of Lord Paramount of the Reach, Warden of the South, etc. They did not promise him anything but the castle that was formerly the seat of the Gardner Kings and their Stewards whom Aegon made great lords. They never agreed to give him over lordship over the many vassals who feudal dues would be necessary to maintain such a home. I wanted Tyrion to honor his word the way Tywin did for the Freys when he gave him Riverrun but made them submit to a new Lord Paramount with a different seat. I would have preferred they confirm Cersei's decision to make House Tarly of Hornhill the new master of the Reach, so Bron would be paying taxes to Sam. Bron never deserved so much wealth, power, or screentime. It would serve him right to gain only a white elephant gift of a castle that would leave him poorer than before.
When Bron asked Davos "You master of Grammar now too " I wanted Tyrion to say something like "Yes. I have just created the position. It comes with the power to fine any member of this council for any slip ups." Bron might then stark to curse him out, at which point Tyrion would add that the Master of Grammar can also fine him for any vulgar language improper for his lofty station. Bron would throw him a sack of gold to prepay in advance.
In their discussion of Brothels I wanted someone to repeat Littlefinger's line about how they were a safer investment than ships, because they never sink and that the pirate that board them pay good coin like anyone else.
Dekker
Prince
- Joined
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- 450
But I mean did it really subvert expectations? Jon Snow was always going to be the true righteous Gary Stu hero with the good heart who saves the world.. from the mad queen sure instead of the night King or Cersei but doesn't matter, the end result is the same. Sure he wasn't crowned king... Except he will clearly be in the real north. Absolutely no subversions of the typical royal blooded destined hero's journey trope story there. Same thing with Arya Mary Sue getting her happy ending and in general a Stark on the throne.. all the Starks get their big win even Sansa, which is not far from how I figured the whole thing would go, (I honestly thought Jon would kill Dany and go back to rule Winterfell while Sansa got the throne, yes unearned but to make up for all her toils)
BirraImperial
Pura Vida!
- Why didn't Grey Worm and the Unsullied kill Jon after he murdered their queen? At least a fight between Jon and Grey Worm with Jon winning would have made a bit more sense?
- Why send Jon to the Wall to become part of the Night's Watch (Is there even a Night's Watch at this point?) when they could have just waited for the Unsullied and Dothraki to leave Westeros and then release Jon to be whatever he wants? I actually thought Jon was going to refuse the crown and take the Black, just like Maester Aemon did at one point...
- Why didn't the other Kingdoms request their own independence after Sansa did for the North?? Weren't they all independent at a time before the Targaryens arrived in Westeros? How does it make sense that a Northerner sits on the throne and the people of the North wouldn't want to remain under his command?
- Was Jon leaving to become a Wilding with Tormund??
- Why send Jon to the Wall to become part of the Night's Watch (Is there even a Night's Watch at this point?) when they could have just waited for the Unsullied and Dothraki to leave Westeros and then release Jon to be whatever he wants? I actually thought Jon was going to refuse the crown and take the Black, just like Maester Aemon did at one point...
- Why didn't the other Kingdoms request their own independence after Sansa did for the North?? Weren't they all independent at a time before the Targaryens arrived in Westeros? How does it make sense that a Northerner sits on the throne and the people of the North wouldn't want to remain under his command?
- Was Jon leaving to become a Wilding with Tormund??
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Well, I'm not necessarily saying the "tie up" did. The final knot tying at the end of most works usually leaves folks either pleasantly happy or maybe a bit disturbed, but they don't often please everyone. What did you want for Arya anyway? Some mysterious death to close things out. A marriage to Lord Baratheon. An affair with Asha (Yara). Yeah, not much subverting there. However, she is the most popular character in the series. Ha..and as a sidenote..back when I used to frequent GRRM's blog years ago, he mentioned that his wife would divorce him (or maybe it was kill him) if he killed off Arya..ha. In my view, Arya kinda ended up doing what Arya would be expected to do ...go off on an adventure. No subverting - there, but not every storyline - or expectation that is - needs to be subverted.
Eh...Jon Snows ride off into the suns...er...snowscape..was a tad bland to me. I think the ultimate message there was that he was "free" and not captive to the Nightswatch, who also by inclination from that last scene very much accepted and encouraged that path. The subversion here was the expectation that Jon would rule everyone and do so wisely. The true happy ending.. That did not come to pass..and well..Jon did not want that anyway.
Bran on the molten metal throne - never expected that even with the stupid leakers. Honestly, I don't expect the book series - if it ever gets written - will end that way.
But Dany? That, to me, was a major subversion of expectations. I see it now kind of...and was very much not happy about it. I'd been Camp Dany for years. I thought she was the savior. But the more I think about ....not just the clues in the show, but in the book as well...I see the logic and genius of where GRRM or D&D took her. I really think it was a major point in GRRM's outline of the series..at least that was likely one true thing that D&D played out in their series. And remember Aerys was not always mad. There was an evolution there..the seed was there..but it took time to truly manifest itself. Dany was clearly becoming a megolomaniac, but we were not always seeing that because our "perception" and "expectation" was different.
Still, the show could have taken more time to show this progression. I think there was a lot of meat to work with here. Yeah, we'd probably would have had some slower episodes here and there, but honestly I like those episodes. I thought Episode 2 was the best of the season.
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot about this season, and well, the last two seasons that I'm not happy with. Primarily that it was rushed and that we had to wait two years for the THIS final season. Major gaps in writing and character development. I was cursing D&D all week for what they did to Dany. But I"m starting to see the light. I just wished I had more to work with to turn that light on.
I can't answer all of your question or won't as it is up to interpretation, speculation, or just plain opinion.. I do think Jon's story could have played out a bit better with more time for sure.
I will say though that technically the North is huge. It just as big as all the other kingdoms combined..granted a bit sparser and less rich for sure. But the Northerners have always been culturally more independent that the rest of the kingdoms who, with the exception of the Ironborn, are far closer in customs. The other kingdoms also varied over time in allegiances and vassalage and whatnot, but otherwise aligned in some way by virtue of or by marriage.
As for the ruler of the six kingdoms, the point there is that the ruler is elected. Doesn't matter if its is a Stark or whomever. It's the person that matters not where they come from. Bran being king has no bearing on the North's independence..and its a temporary thing anyway. That is, Bran Stark is on the throne now as he is the right man for the job, but the Stark lineage does not hold the throne.
As for the NightsWatch, it has exited for a 1000 years, mainly to fend off the wildings. No reason for it not to exist really, although one could presume that its importance has decreased significantly in some respects. Tyrion kind of addressed that too in a quote late in the episode - something to the effect that a place will always be needed for thieves, etc. to go.
I take it that Jon is going to his freedom - Wildling or not. In a way they will probably follow him. Wildlings seem to be evolving in a way as well. Honestly though, I don't like that he ended up there. I see the justification for it in one respect, but wished something better. I always liked Jon and rooted for him but overall he was mainly a static character. He was pretty much always honorable, loyal, and good - really the best person in this world. This may be why he connected with so many viewers. He was the typical type of character that people root for, but he was not really the winner here....but in reality, he was the actual Savior.
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Berzerker
Deity
why do they need the night watch now, the NK is dead and the wildling wars are over
Most everyone here is too forgiving of this. I know D&D can't be punished for this, we've all given them our time and ad money and subscription money to HBO *unless you pirated it or saw it streamed somewhere*, but damn, this is a less-than-subpar ending with no real buildup or reward. We can all list our complaints and questions for seemingly eternity; it's just that mind-boogling.
We also had our own expectations, for sure. I doubt anyone called half of what happened this episode without the spoilers.
We also had our own expectations, for sure. I doubt anyone called half of what happened this episode without the spoilers.
I can't decide on what the stupidest part of the ending was, but it is telling i had to fast-forward parts of the episode
Maybe the worst was that the dragon just left, cause it would be convenient.
Apparently the dothraki now are under GW command, cause whatever.
But really there is no point in trying to notice individual issues in such an episode.
Maybe the worst was that the dragon just left, cause it would be convenient.
Apparently the dothraki now are under GW command, cause whatever.
But really there is no point in trying to notice individual issues in such an episode.
I can't decide on what the stupidest part of the ending was, but it is telling i had to fast-forward parts of the episode
Maybe the worst was that the dragon just left, cause it would be convenient.
Apparently the dothraki now are under GW command, cause whatever.
But really there is no point in trying to notice individual issues in such an episode.
Greyworm is executing people, the Unsullied are pumped up, the Dothraki are having a rave...and then Dany dies and the North arrives and there's no real tension beyond Sansa and GW snapping at each other? It would had been well for one last battle to rid Planetos of the zealot shits.
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