[RD] Games as a Service

[Senethro]

If Valve had their way and all publishers opted into their next gen "Steam store must be connected to play" DRM that thirty minutes might seem a little longer.

That's actually a great example against the "well they been good for me" position. It's the classic "who will speak when they come for you?"

When Valve made DRM that required physical purchasers to still connect to install, I had internet so I could still install games so I did not care.

When Valve made DRM that required me to purchase through their store, I installed their store when I wanted to buy a game and then uninstalled it so I did not care.

When Valve made DRM that required me to keep their store installed, it just didn't take up that much space so I did not care.

When Valve made DRM that required me to have their store not only installed but running, it just didn't take up that much bandwidth so I did not care.

Where does this chain stop for you? Do you think Gabe Newell will be satisfied before it finally reaches the point where you aren't? Why would you think that, based on his history?

Has Steam decreased functionality or added extra requirements in the past 15 years? (though I'd be sure the software has bloated, more memory usage etc)

15 years of established behaviour allows a degree of trust to form.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Has Steam decreased functionality or added extra requirements in the past 15 years? (though I'd be sure the software has bloated, more memory usage etc)

15 years of established behaviour allows a degree of trust to form.

You can no longer use Steam on some older OSes, which decreases functionality.

 

[RobAnybody]

Tim, honestly it stops at "well they've been good for me" (good is not the word I'd choose - "decent" is, or maybe "convenient"). I just don't care. I'll accept it may be a failing on my part. I'm selfish in this aspect of my life. Totally self-centered even. They serve my needs. Maybe I should care, & you make a good case for why I should, but I just don't.

 

[cardgame]

You can no longer use Steam on some older OSes, which decreases functionality.

OS old enough to have this apply decrease functionality simply by being themselves, tbh.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim, honestly it stops at "well they've been good for me" (good is not the word I'd choose - "decent" is, or maybe "convenient"). I just don't care. I'll accept it may be a failing on my part. I'm selfish in this aspect of my life. Totally self-centered even. They serve my needs. Maybe I should care, & you make a good case for why I should, but I just don't.

That's okay man. I actually do respect you doing you. I do hope that Valve gets burned to the ground, even though that would be harmful to you, but I regret the 'would be harmful to you' part. That's me doing me.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Has Steam added extra requirements in the past 15 years?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you would ask a disingenuous question like this though.

 

[Senethro]

Yes. I'm not surprised that you would ask a disingenuous question like this though.

Have they though?

Because everyone could turn evil next Thursday. We can never be certain they won't. We only have past behaviour to guess at how someone will act in the future. 15 years is about as good information as you're going to get for anything.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Have they though?

LOL...yes.

 

[Senethro]

LOL...yes.

Ok. Do you want me to guess?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Ok. Do you want me to guess?

I'd actually prefer you drop the fanboy routine long enough to quit pretending that you don't know.

'Steam check on run' replaced 'Steam check on install' as a feature of Steam DRM within the last fifteen years, yes. There was abundant controversy at the time, but I guess it never penetrated the fanboy realm. The issue there was that Valve was denying users the opportunity to install their crappy invasive program long enough to install games, and then uninstalling it. 'Steam check on run' really didn't improve the DRM for publishers, and just punished the users. Was great for Valve though.

'Steam app timer must be reset' was added so that Steam checks would fail without the Steam App being allowed to 'check in' at intervals was added as a feature of the DRM more recently than that, yes. Again there was abundant controversy. Forcing users to not only keep the Steam virus installed, but allow it internet access and ensure internet service is provided clearly benefited no one but Valve.

 

[warpus]

You do you, and I'm not trying to make you do otherwise, but I hope you recognize that your position is basically "well the bully doesn't pick on me so what they do is okay from where I stand."

Yes, if you are saying that steam is anti the people who are not giving them money, then I'll totally agree that they put 100% in their attention on pleasing the people who are the paying customers.

 

[Senethro]

I'd actually prefer you drop the fanboy routine long enough to quit pretending that you don't know.

'Steam check on run' replaced 'Steam check on install' as a feature of Steam DRM within the last fifteen years, yes. There was abundant controversy at the time, but I guess it never penetrated the fanboy realm. The issue there was that Valve was denying users the opportunity to install their crappy invasive program long enough to install games, and then uninstalling it. 'Steam check on run' really didn't improve the DRM for publishers, and just punished the users. Was great for Valve though.

Ok. I presume I'm in the wrong here, but what year was it? I picked 15 years through the extremely scientific process of Orange Box release year (2007) + 2. Beyond the Sword released slightly earlier and was one of the last games I bought in physical format. Much prior to that my memory is extremely foggy, and all I remember is that hideous olive green interface. How close was I?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Ok. I presume I'm in the wrong here, but what year was it? I picked 15 years through the extremely scientific process of Orange Box release year (2007) + 2. Beyond the Sword released slightly earlier and was one of the last games I bought in physical format. Much prior to that my memory is extremely foggy, and all I remember is that hideous olive green interface. How close was I?

I couldn't honestly give exact years. My personal life does coincidentally have a benchmark sixteen years ago, and I know the introduction of 'steam check on run' was a number of years after that...definitely in your 15 year range. Say 10 plus or minus 2? Steam app timer reset or all checks fail was maybe...five years ago? Plus three, minus one? Been at least four I guess, and five seems likely, but time does fly...

Somewhere along there Valve tried for "Steam App must be in contact with the mothership or steamchecks will fail" and the backlash actually turned them back from it, at least temporarily. I've wondered ever since when Gabe and the gang are going to revive that. I do not subscribe to any theory that says "well if this is as bad as it gets I'm okay," because Valve does appear committed to making it progressively worse.

But, yeah, I'm not just blowing smoke when I say that Valve has made Steam progressively more invasive and onerous. I get that they have never done anything that bothers you, which clearly indicates that you don't see a world where continuous access to reliable internet would not exist. That's fine for you for as long as it holds true, but isn't an assumption that can be made on behalf of all gamers.

 

[Takhisis]

OS old enough to have this apply decrease functionality simply by being themselves, tbh.

Depends. Windows XP still remains in working condition.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, if you are saying that steam is anti the people who are not giving them money, then I'll totally agree that they put 100% in their attention on pleasing the people who are the paying customers.

This is a sensible take, but let me put it this way...

When I worked at a Ford store I wasn't allowed to just wander the town slashing tires on all non-Ford cars just because those people were "just car buyers" and not my customers.

 

[cardgame]

Do you feel that's an appropriate analogy for the actions (???) that Steam has taken towards non-Steam platforms? (???)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Do you feel that's an appropriate analogy for the actions (???) that Steam has taken towards non-Steam platforms? (???)

It's illustrative.

 

[Arakhor]

What I find interesting is the outrage at Epic for doing many of the things that Steam did, just more obnoxiously and with far less customer service. It's as if Epic discarded the bread and circuses approach and the plebeians suddenly noticed what was going on.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I would say the free games are a bread and circuses approach. I now have a massive library on Epic, and I only paid for one of them (Old World). I will continue to get their free games, and have quite happily enjoyed several of them (Subnautica was absolutely fantastic).

I, like other users here I will wager, view Steam with vague annoyance as it has not caused any major personal issues. I bought HL2 on release in 2004 and had to wait a few days to download the updates over our dial-up connection. It was quite the letdown to have to wait. I've never been without a halfway decent internet connection since then, so the worst aspect of Steam had been nothing more than a minor or temporary annoyance for me. I can fully believe that this aspect makes Steam a complete no-go for some users, though, and it is inherently anti-consumer to make it so unnecessarily difficult to play your games offline.

On the flip side, Steam has done a lot to make my gaming life dramatically easier. A lot of Steam's features are designed to remove barriers to playing your games (with the glaring exception I mentioned earlier). I remember spending hours fiddling with firewalls and IP addresses and other opaque settings to get Age of Empires II working at LAN parties in the early 2000s. Now, if I want to play with my brothers, there are no barriers, and as someone who grew up with those barriers, this is an enormous positive, and one for which I admit I will overlook quite a lot. Automatic updates only help this, as we used to have to hunt down patches or no-cd cracks or whatnot to make sure everyone was on the same version of the game.

Downloading mods is easier than ever, and it is great to have automatic updating of those as well. But, it is quite anti-consumer that you cannot by default download Steam workshop files without having the game and being logged in.

I find that I also appreciate the silly little touches like achievements and cards and badges, which serve no other purpose than to get you more firmly entrenched in the Steam ecosystem. It's fun (even though it's pointless) to hunt for achievements which can encourage you to try things you would never have attempted before, although a vast number of achievements are mind-bogglingly poorly thought out. Judging by the achievements, many developers have a much higher opinion of their game than it warrants.

Other features are quite nice as well, like cloud saves, Steam Link, big picture mode, Proton...it's undeniable that Valve has invested a huge amount into making Steam a one-stop shop for gamers, by eliminating barriers once you are in the ecosystem, and if you are highly invested in Steam the features really are fantastic. But the goal is to keep people within Steam, of course, and any other read of Valve's investment in those features is purely naive.

Steam refunds are an obvious example of Valve's motivations. It took YEARS for them to start offering refunds, a basic service for ANY store, and that was only because of legal and political pressure from more consumer-friendly countries (i.e. NOT the US). There would still be no refunds without that.

I am fully aware of Valve's motivations and Steam's shortcomings, but the benefits - so far - have drastically outweighed the objectively anti-consumer crap that Valve regularly pulls. I have built up an enormous library of games at a fraction of the investment it would have taken through retailers, although in the last few years other digital distributors have caught up in that regard (seriously, the early years of Steam sales were really something else). I have played games with friends with an ease that I just never had before, and I've discovered a host of games and developers that I would never have tried (and arguably, they would never have been made) without the ease of publishing that Steam allows.

I would honestly love to buy all of my games on GOG, but the games I am most interested in are mostly just not there, and to be 100% honest the storefront is secondary to the game for me. That's not the fault of GOG, and is indicative of how publishers have now invested wholesale into Steam. The last game I bought on GOG was Into the Breach, a fantastic single player game which just didn't receive any real benefit from Steam's ecosystem (I've now bought it a second time on the Switch...).

Valve has benefited from me, yes, but I have also benefited from them. I have invested in Steam's ecosystem with eyes open, and found it to be useful enough to stay.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I find that I also appreciate the silly little touches like achievements and cards and badges, which serve no other purpose than to get you more firmly entrenched in the Steam ecosystem. It's fun (even though it's pointless) to hunt for achievements which can encourage you to try things you would never have attempted before, although a vast number of achievements are mind-bogglingly poorly thought out. Judging by the achievements, many developers have a much higher opinion of their game than it warrants.

I get a little happiness whenever I see the notification for a new Steam Trading Card come up, even though I have no idea what the trading cards are even for.