[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

[UWHabs]

But founding their first city later means a later start on building a Holy Site, and nowhere to stash a found relic until the city is settled.

You lose the relic option true, but you're not building a holy site on turn 1. As long as you settle a city before researching Astrology, you're not in any worse shape. I think it's still up for debate whether you are more likely to find a natural wonder or not, although you do have a little more freedom to find a site that better fits a holy site by delaying settling. But getting the extra production from forests/jungle could help build them a little faster, and certainly getting faith from features if you have a theatre square helps the faith output.

 

[Leyrann]

But founding their first city later means a later start on building a Holy Site, and nowhere to stash a found relic until the city is settled.

You get almost as much science from the ability as from a size 1 city, so as long as you settle before discovering Astrology it doesn't set you back. You also get the bonus population and the builder which will likely more than make up for the production lost from wandering a few turns before settling.

 

[Giskler]

The public branch of Civ 6 was just updated.

 

[Duuk]

And remember, while moving around cityless YOU ARE DRAWING SCIENCE. So moving around without that city and looking for that natural wonder ISN'T HURTING you while you're bee-lining astrology. And you're going to insta-pop to 2 population AND a builder? I'll wager I pop my GP faster with Maori than I did with most other civs because I'll have 3-4 turns of movement to find a natural wonder near a coast with some solid fish, forests, and hills, with at least one mountain.

 

[Giskler]

Nevermind, looks like it was just a record update.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Nevermind, looks like it was just a record update.

They did a small change to the launcher.

 

[bite]

I think that is what I like about the Maori the most, is that 2-4 turns you spend finding the best spot are not wasted

 

[Zaarin]

I wonder if the Maori's nomadic start was somewhat inspired by Endless Space 2's Vaulters, who start with a colony ship instead of a home system and who also get a bonus once they settle to make up for their late start.

 

[VermelhoRed]

I'm still baffled by the first leak, there are plenty of weird things about it, like how the leaker left out Portugal and Byzantium and so on (which is a brave guess), how he guessed 5 of the 8 new civs right (with one of them being Hungary, worth noting), and appointing some of them with ridiculously out of place leader picks. And also the leak in question being posted here by AssemblingTyphoon 6 hours later.

Now that I think about it, LongbuffaloJump seems to bear some similarity to AssemblingTyphoon. I don't know man, my inner conspiracy theorist awakens man. These Noongar won't let me sleep man.

I still think at least one of those leakers did their leak with the endorsement from Firaxis themselves. It's all part of the hype campaign.

I wish both Korea and Babylon would stop being portrayed as science civs, but I'm not holding my breath. IMO Babylon should be a culture/builder/faith/war civ (in roughly that order).

Not to mention Babylon being the banking capital of the ancient era...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I wonder if the Maori's nomadic start was somewhat inspired by Endless Space 2's Vaulters, who start with a colony ship instead of a home system and who also get a bonus once they settle to make up for their late start.

My first impression was the way you could pick you city spot within a certain radius in Beyond Earth.

 

[marius_kaparius]

Has anyone else read this? Thoughts? Did he get early access to a build and not like it? The analysis does not follow from what we've been shown so far in my opinion. The major gripe is based around the remark made in the first stream about flooding your opponents through global warming, but in that same stream Firaxis also said the impact of natural disasters can be controlled via settings. It then seems to suggest the expansion is light on features but we haven't even been shown all the new features yet. Electricity and the Future Era come to mind.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Has anyone else read this? Thoughts? Did he get early access to a build and not like it? The analysis does not follow from what we've been shown so far in my opinion. The major gripe is based around the remark made in the first stream about flooding your opponents through global warming, but in that same stream Firaxis also said the impact of natural disasters can be controlled via settings. It then seems to suggest the expansion is light on features but we haven't even been shown all the new features yet. Electricity and the Future Era come to mind.

After skimming it, I can't figure out what his specific complaint is. He doesn't like active religion. He doesn't like the way homogenic climate change is modeled. He mentions that it is too boardgamey.

So I guess he prefers a stricter adherence to historical simulation?

It seems like one of those forum posters who decides to publicly ragequit the game, seemingly to convince other players not to enjoy it anymore. Only his platform is a magazine instead of a forum.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Has anyone else read this? Thoughts? Did he get early access to a build and not like it? The analysis does not follow from what we've been shown so far in my opinion. The major gripe is based around the remark made in the first stream about flooding your opponents through global warming, but in that same stream Firaxis also said the impact of natural disasters can be controlled via settings. It then seems to suggest the expansion is light on features but we haven't even been shown all the new features yet. Electricity and the Future Era come to mind.

He says of the World Congress that it was "such a vital late-game feature in the last two outings... that it beggars belief why it was cut in the first place"... and then goes on to complain (and I would tend to agree) that in Civ V the AI was so stupid it didn't know how to use the World Congress properly, and that in Civ VI it's likely to be the same. So which is it?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

So, @bite ...

You're going to map all the geographical features for all the civs too, right?

*runs away*

 

[King William I]

Has anyone else read this? Thoughts? Did he get early access to a build and not like it? The analysis does not follow from what we've been shown so far in my opinion. The major gripe is based around the remark made in the first stream about flooding your opponents through global warming, but in that same stream Firaxis also said the impact of natural disasters can be controlled via settings. It then seems to suggest the expansion is light on features but we haven't even been shown all the new features yet. Electricity and the Future Era come to mind.

I read it, it just sounds like he hates that it doesn't for his plausrule so no one should buy it....

Typical critic

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I read it, it just sounds like he hates that it doesn't for his plausrule so no one should buy it....

Typical critic

It's why I stopped reading any online magazines or any sort of publications for games, they're either paid to gloat about how amazing it is or have no idea what they are talking about, the only opinion I value is that off other people's who are fan of the franchise(s) or my own.

 

[Disgustipated]

or at the higher difficulties find that opponents don’t know how to convert their overwhelming numerical advantages over me into a victory....
But there are plenty of 4X games, set in fantasy worlds or space, where the rules of Earth don’t apply, and you can really go wild with systems from the outer reaches of the developer’s imagination. Civilization can’t compete at that level. Its strength has always been its reverence to human history, however alternative. But, at this point, it looks like the series is losing its precious grasp on reality.

He makes some valid points about the lacking AI. As for the second statement I quoted I feel he is off. The series never had that much grasp on reality. He doesn't seem to complain about a Giant Death Robot in Civ5. I have no problem with futuristic robots as long as they are realistic. Something that walks on 2 legs is inherently weak, and is silly as a real unit. Climate change in past civs was always kind of weird too with nuclear winter heating the planet up.

I wouldn't discount his article, he has some valid criticisms. The game isn't for everyone. I prefer it over those fantasy or space 4x games which I can't seem to get into.

He just doesn't like the direction the series is going into which is his opinion, and a valid opinion. Just not one that I share.

 

[bite]

So, @bite ...

You're going to map all the geographical features for all the civs too, right?

*runs away*

Going to be honest, for the first time this year I am happy with past me, for thinking ahead and already adding most of the major rivers to The Map already

 

[AriochIV]

I think Zak's primary objection is revealed in this passage:

...which suggested that the developer’s vision was veering away from mine. When Rise and Fall did come out my fears were confirmed.

He has is own vision for what he'd like Civilization to be, and he's going to dislike anything that doesn't follow that vision. Fair enough, I suppose, but I'm not sure why he would assume that anyone else should care what his vision is. I found it particularly amusing when he bragged about his Civilization experience, having "dutifully" followed the game since Civ IV Warlords. WOW!!

If you hated Rise & Fall, as he did, then I suppose it's a fair guess that you won't like Gathering Storm either. But I thought R&F was pretty good... it was certainly an improvement over base Civ VI, which I had found largely unplayable.

He makes some good points about the AI problems and the lack of improvement there, but these seem to be completely unrelated to (and secondary to) his displeasure about the series' direction. Announcing that you won't be buying something feels a lot like personal pique rather than impartial criticism.

 

[Duuk]

Basically, I'll chime in that the reviewer strikes me as LongTimeFanboiGuy that thinks just because he's been a long time fan (but only since Civ4...) he thinks that everyone else's opinions on WhatIsCiv that differ from his Holy Opinion are wrong.

Basically it's the old "You're Doing Fun Wrong". When it's a critic writing that it's just bad. Luckily for us, the developers of the Civ series seem to be (mostly) in line with what (enough of us anyway) the fans seem to want and enjoy.

As opposed to, for example, the World of Warcraft devs who have taken great pains to inform large groups of their fans that they were doing fun wrong and encouraged us to stop playing.