Moriarte
Immortal
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General News Regarding China & Hong Kong
- Thread starter Commodore
- Start date
^It's like a football club strenuously denying that their head coach is about to resign.
Hong Kong: I would quit if I had choice, says leader in leaked audio
Carrie Lam’s comments further demonstrate it is Beijing directing response to crisis
A leaked audio recording has emerged in which Hong Kong’s leader, Carrie Lam, can be heard saying she would quit if she had “a choice” but suggesting she was being prevented from doing so by authorities in Beijing.
In the recording, obtained by Reuters, the Hong Kong chief executive told a group of businesspeople in a closed-door meeting last week she was “very, very limited” in how her government could respond to the mass protests that began in June over a proposal to allow extradition to mainland China.
“For a chief executive to have caused this huge havoc to Hong Kong is unforgivable. If I have a choice, the first thing [I would do] is to quit, having made a deep apology,” Lam said, her voice breaking with emotion. “So I make a plea to you for your forgiveness.”
The remarks further demonstrate that it is Beijing rather than Lam directing the government’s response to a political crisis that has threatened China’s authority over the city, as protesters continue to take to the streets pressing for the extradition bill to be withdrawn and calling for universal suffrage.
Clashes continued on Monday night when police fired teargas to clear protesters in Mong Kok, a commercial and residential area in Kowloon.
In the leaked recording, Lam said she was constrained by the fact the situation had reached “a sort of sovereignty and security level” of concern to the Beijing leadership, especially in the midst of “unprecedented tension between the two big economies of the world” – a reference to deteriorating economic and diplomatic ties between the US and China.
“The political room for the chief executive who, unfortunately, has to serve two masters by constitution – that is, the central people’s government and the people of Hong Kong – that political room for manoeuvring is very, very, very limited,” she said.
As police appear to be cracking down more severely on protesters, resulting in more violent clashes, observers have wondered whether Hong Kong authorities have been ordered to put down the protests before 1 October, when the People’s Republic of China marks its 70th birthday, a national holiday that Beijing would not want to see tarnished.
But Lam said Beijing had not imposed a deadline and was willing to wait out the unrest, even at the cost of damaging Hong Kong’s economy. Officials were making special arrangements for a “modest but solemn” 1 October celebration amid expectations of disruption.
“I can assure you that Beijing does not have a deadline. They know this will ripple on,” she said. “They are willing to play long, so you have no short-term solution. Hong Kong suffers, you lose tourism, economy, you lose your IPOs and so, but you can’t do much about it.”
Lam said there were no plans for China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to be deployed. “My own feeling [of] the pulse and through discussions, [Beijing] has absolutely no plan to send in the PLA.”
Lam’s comments came to light on Monday as thousands of university and secondary students in Hong Kong boycotted the first day of the new term , instead holding rallies and facing off against riot police in skirmishes into the night.
Thousands of students wearing helmets, goggles and masks – the unofficial uniform of the protesters – filled the grounds of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK), holding black banners saying “Boycott for freedom” and periodically shouting “Reclaim Hong Kong”.
“If you are not a slave, don’t act like one,” said one speaker, a woman introduced only by her surname, Chiu, from an alumni group, who urged students to remember their rights. A stage behind her featured a saying by Mao Zedong: “A single spark can start a prairie fire.”
University students have called for a two-week boycott, while secondary students have vowed to protest for one day a week until demonstrators’ demands are met.
In a park across the city, outside of the government’s headquarters, hundreds of people gathered in solidarity with students for a workers’ rally. In the evening, dozens of protesters gathered outside the garrison for PLA troops stationed in the city.
“If we are stopped by their violence, if we are frightened, I think our whole future will be over. It will be one country, one system,” said Phillip Tsoi, 19, who was shining a laser into windows of the PLA complex to antagonise those inside.
Hong Kong, a former British colony under Chinese rule since 1997, is meant to enjoy certain freedoms and autonomy under a the “one country, two systems” framework, according to the terms of the handover.
Tensions between protesters, who say that promise has been broken, and authorities have escalated dramatically in recent weeks. On Saturday, police fired teargas and water cannons with dye at protesters who threw petrol bombs and lit fires. Police also targeted protesters and commuters in metro stations, beating them with batons. On Sunday, protesters paralysed transport links to Hong Kong airport.
On Monday, police said more than 1,000 people had been arrested since the demonstrations began in June, including 159 over the weekend, among them a 13-year-old boy found with two petrol bombs.
China’s foreign ministry spokesman, Geng Shuang, said in a regular news briefing on Monday that the demonstrations in Hong Kong had “completely exceeded the scope of freedom of assembly”. “They have evolved into extreme and violent actions,” he said, reiterating Beijing’s support for the Hong Kong government and police.
In an English-language editorial on Sunday, the Xinhua state news agency said: “The end is coming for those attempting to disrupt Hong Kong and antagonise China.”
Hong Kong residents say their city feels increasingly like it is under martial law. After the weekend of tense clashes, riot police patrolled railway stations as protesters blocked train doors from closing, causing delays and throwing morning rush hour into chaos. Police were seen arresting at least one group of protesters and searching people on the street.
On Monday morning, secondary school students kneeled, held hands and chanted in the rain outside their schools. A typhoon warning had closed many primary schools
Carrie Lam’s comments further demonstrate it is Beijing directing response to crisis
A leaked audio recording has emerged in which Hong Kong’s leader, Carrie Lam, can be heard saying she would quit if she had “a choice” but suggesting she was being prevented from doing so by authorities in Beijing.
In the recording, obtained by Reuters, the Hong Kong chief executive told a group of businesspeople in a closed-door meeting last week she was “very, very limited” in how her government could respond to the mass protests that began in June over a proposal to allow extradition to mainland China.
“For a chief executive to have caused this huge havoc to Hong Kong is unforgivable. If I have a choice, the first thing [I would do] is to quit, having made a deep apology,” Lam said, her voice breaking with emotion. “So I make a plea to you for your forgiveness.”
The remarks further demonstrate that it is Beijing rather than Lam directing the government’s response to a political crisis that has threatened China’s authority over the city, as protesters continue to take to the streets pressing for the extradition bill to be withdrawn and calling for universal suffrage.
Clashes continued on Monday night when police fired teargas to clear protesters in Mong Kok, a commercial and residential area in Kowloon.
In the leaked recording, Lam said she was constrained by the fact the situation had reached “a sort of sovereignty and security level” of concern to the Beijing leadership, especially in the midst of “unprecedented tension between the two big economies of the world” – a reference to deteriorating economic and diplomatic ties between the US and China.
“The political room for the chief executive who, unfortunately, has to serve two masters by constitution – that is, the central people’s government and the people of Hong Kong – that political room for manoeuvring is very, very, very limited,” she said.
As police appear to be cracking down more severely on protesters, resulting in more violent clashes, observers have wondered whether Hong Kong authorities have been ordered to put down the protests before 1 October, when the People’s Republic of China marks its 70th birthday, a national holiday that Beijing would not want to see tarnished.
But Lam said Beijing had not imposed a deadline and was willing to wait out the unrest, even at the cost of damaging Hong Kong’s economy. Officials were making special arrangements for a “modest but solemn” 1 October celebration amid expectations of disruption.
“I can assure you that Beijing does not have a deadline. They know this will ripple on,” she said. “They are willing to play long, so you have no short-term solution. Hong Kong suffers, you lose tourism, economy, you lose your IPOs and so, but you can’t do much about it.”
Lam said there were no plans for China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to be deployed. “My own feeling [of] the pulse and through discussions, [Beijing] has absolutely no plan to send in the PLA.”
Lam’s comments came to light on Monday as thousands of university and secondary students in Hong Kong boycotted the first day of the new term , instead holding rallies and facing off against riot police in skirmishes into the night.
Thousands of students wearing helmets, goggles and masks – the unofficial uniform of the protesters – filled the grounds of the Chinese University of Hong Kong (CUHK), holding black banners saying “Boycott for freedom” and periodically shouting “Reclaim Hong Kong”.
“If you are not a slave, don’t act like one,” said one speaker, a woman introduced only by her surname, Chiu, from an alumni group, who urged students to remember their rights. A stage behind her featured a saying by Mao Zedong: “A single spark can start a prairie fire.”
University students have called for a two-week boycott, while secondary students have vowed to protest for one day a week until demonstrators’ demands are met.
In a park across the city, outside of the government’s headquarters, hundreds of people gathered in solidarity with students for a workers’ rally. In the evening, dozens of protesters gathered outside the garrison for PLA troops stationed in the city.
“If we are stopped by their violence, if we are frightened, I think our whole future will be over. It will be one country, one system,” said Phillip Tsoi, 19, who was shining a laser into windows of the PLA complex to antagonise those inside.
Hong Kong, a former British colony under Chinese rule since 1997, is meant to enjoy certain freedoms and autonomy under a the “one country, two systems” framework, according to the terms of the handover.
Tensions between protesters, who say that promise has been broken, and authorities have escalated dramatically in recent weeks. On Saturday, police fired teargas and water cannons with dye at protesters who threw petrol bombs and lit fires. Police also targeted protesters and commuters in metro stations, beating them with batons. On Sunday, protesters paralysed transport links to Hong Kong airport.
On Monday, police said more than 1,000 people had been arrested since the demonstrations began in June, including 159 over the weekend, among them a 13-year-old boy found with two petrol bombs.
China’s foreign ministry spokesman, Geng Shuang, said in a regular news briefing on Monday that the demonstrations in Hong Kong had “completely exceeded the scope of freedom of assembly”. “They have evolved into extreme and violent actions,” he said, reiterating Beijing’s support for the Hong Kong government and police.
In an English-language editorial on Sunday, the Xinhua state news agency said: “The end is coming for those attempting to disrupt Hong Kong and antagonise China.”
Hong Kong residents say their city feels increasingly like it is under martial law. After the weekend of tense clashes, riot police patrolled railway stations as protesters blocked train doors from closing, causing delays and throwing morning rush hour into chaos. Police were seen arresting at least one group of protesters and searching people on the street.
On Monday morning, secondary school students kneeled, held hands and chanted in the rain outside their schools. A typhoon warning had closed many primary schools
plarq
Crazy forever
Hong Kong was the symptom of China's disease.
Conspiracy theory time: What if this whole thing was orchestrated by Beijing to serve as a pretext for stripping Hong Kong of any autonomy it had and fully integrate it into the rest of China?
Estebonrober
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
- Messages
- 5,870
Will anything be left by the time they are done? Why take away it's special status that allows it to be a massive funnel for foreign capital into China proper? Seems dumb, but China does not always act intelligently.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
Western capital isn't going to stop flowing into China just because they absorb Hong Kong.
I just saw a segment recently on Miss "America First" Tomi Laren's clothing line being manufactured in China. When she got hypocrisy trolled for it she claimed she's a small business and "has to." Even when things have the "Made in America" stamp on it there's a good chance the product was made with prison labor.
It's western Capitalists making these choices. They'll continue to do it with or without Hong Kong.
I just saw a segment recently on Miss "America First" Tomi Laren's clothing line being manufactured in China. When she got hypocrisy trolled for it she claimed she's a small business and "has to." Even when things have the "Made in America" stamp on it there's a good chance the product was made with prison labor.
It's western Capitalists making these choices. They'll continue to do it with or without Hong Kong.
Zkribbler
Deity
That's like a foolish shark which swallows a porcupine fish whole. The porcupine fish will calmly gnaw its way out.Nah, they wouldn't risk such a thing at this time. I just think that they overplayed their hand.
Except that capitalists, westerners or others, like stability to invest in, and Hong Kong can render the situation anything but stable.
Yes, but as they say:
With Wednesday’s announcement, Lam has now conceded to one of five key demands of the demonstrators. However, the chief executive did not respond to protesters’ other demands, which include an independent inquiry into police behaviour, amnesty for those arrested, and democratic reforms to give Hong Kong residents universal suffrage.
Instead, Lam proposed “four actions to help society move forward,” including pledges to follow up recommendations from the IPCC and set up a platform for dialogue, inviting community leaders and experts to advise the government on social issues.
Instead, Lam proposed “four actions to help society move forward,” including pledges to follow up recommendations from the IPCC and set up a platform for dialogue, inviting community leaders and experts to advise the government on social issues.
I think that by criminalising protests they might end up turning being arrested into a badge of honour, a proof of democratic credentials, and thus further devalue state authority.
ywhtptgtfo
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2010
- Messages
- 1,746
Agreed that police brutality is getting out of hand. However, the protesters are also unusually violent and provocative. Almost always, the violence started with them creating roadblocks (destroying public infrastructure in the process) and laying siege to police stations. I also don't believe all the destruction of public property (especially MTR stations) are false flag attacks. There has always been a separatist faction in Hong Kong that is xenophobic and embraces violent revolution. The beating of those mainlanders in the airports have demonstrated what sort of people form the core of these nightly violent protests.
I'm not sure that they are at the core of it, if there is a core to this. So far there doesn't appear to be any central leadership, which is probably what has the government worried. It'd be far better for the latter if there was something such as a party or front making this a partisan thing.
So, about propaganda and fair reporting. In the aftermath of Moscow protests, a guy was sentenced to 5 years jail time, for a tweet. His tweet was about abducting and killing police officers children. The case was widely reported and discussed in Russia.
Guess what was a news headline on svoboda.org.
"Court sentenced a man to 5 years of prison, for a tweet about deanonimization of police officers"
https://www.svoboda.org/a/30143885.html
Guess what was a news headline on svoboda.org.
"Court sentenced a man to 5 years of prison, for a tweet about deanonimization of police officers"
https://www.svoboda.org/a/30143885.html
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
You're assuming it'd stay unstable. The unrest is temporary no matter which way it goes.
Has anybody even quoted the source you're trying to discredit?
If trade wars between China and the US (and their allies) continue then things won't go down. If Hong Kong goes into the economic recession which some economists are forecasting (I don't know enough myself to check the veracity of these claims, but I do know the ongoing trade war will hurt them) then people will stop investing in them. It's al up for grabs so I won't make predictions, mind you.
Google what Radio Liberty is.
Zkribbler
Deity
Two million peaceful protestors. A couple of handfuls of wackjobs. Is to be expected.
So no.
Zkribbler
Deity
IMHO on the five demands:
The complete withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill.Granted.![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
- The government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests. --Except as to to those specific portions of protests, wherein protesters have initiated violence, and except referring to police riots within portions of the protests.
- The unconditional release of arrested protesters and charges against them dropped -- Except as to violent protestors who will be tried by jury trials within Hong Kong.
- An independent inquiry into police behaviour -- "Independent" means independent, not Lams' running dogs.
- Implementation of genuine universal suffrage -- including Lams' ouster & replacement in fair and free elections.
