General News Regarding China & Hong Kong

[Commodore]

IMHO on the five demands:

• The complete withdrawal of the proposed extradition bill.Granted.
  
  
• The government to withdraw the use of the word “riot” in relation to protests. --Except as to to those specific portions of protests, wherein protesters have initiated violence, and except referring to police riots within portions of the protests.
  
  
• The unconditional release of arrested protesters and charges against them dropped -- Except as to violent protestors who will be tried by jury trials within Hong Kong.
  
  
• An independent inquiry into police behaviour -- "Independent" means independent, not Lams' running dogs.
  
  
• Implementation of genuine universal suffrage -- including Lams' ouster & replacement in fair and free elections.

Well at least their main demand has been met...for now. I assume the Chinese will try a similar bill to this one in the near future.

In my perfect world these protests would turn into a full-fledged Hong Kong independence movement supported by the international community.

 

[Takhisis]

Give it time…

Protesters return to Hong Kong streets despite bill withdrawal

 

[red_elk]

So no.

Simply saying that you don't understand the point I'm making would do.

 

[Socrates99]

Starting to sound like the French yellow vest movement. Protest sparked by a specific law but even once the law's withdrawn the people continue.

 

[Commodore]

Starting to sound like the French yellow vest movement. Protest sparked by a specific law but even once the law's withdrawn the people continue.

Just shows that in both cases the law that sparked the protests was just the final straw and there are much deeper greivances that need to be addressed.

 

[Takhisis]

Simply saying that you don't understand the point I'm making would do.

If you don't want to answer just don't do so, but stop with the ‘no, you’ and attempts to steer the conversation away from the topic.

 

[red_elk]

If you don't want to answer just don't do so, but stop with the ‘no, you’ and attempts to steer the conversation away from the topic.

The only question you asked was whether anyone quoted the source I want to discredit. It's irrelevant.
Since I wasn't trying to discredit a particular source, either you misunderstood my point completely, or asked loaded question on purpose.
And if you are really interested what was the point I'm making, read previous discussion, it should be easy to understand.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Two million peaceful protestors. A couple of handfuls of wackjobs. Is to be expected.

Large protests with 1-2 million participation only occurred a few times. The remaining protests did not involve 1-2 million. Also, it's not a couple of wackjobs. There were hundreds if not thousands of them that riot at multiple places at a time.

I was in the city during the summer, watched the live footages every day, and had to bear witness to the destruction on a regular basis. Several trips within the family had to be cancelled or postponed.

It is detrimental to the city f the current protesting psychology is allowed to be normalized such that it is acceptable to:
1. Create fake news either by fabricating facts, distorting course of events, or taking things out of context
2. Force unwilling civilians to take part in their movements (e.g. blocking subway doors, blocking airports)
3. Hold the safety and interests of unwilling civilians hostage (e.g. putting junk in railways, damaging traffic lights, destroying subway stations)
4. Harass and dox other civilians who spoke in support of the police or against the protesters
5. Lie, deflect, hide, justify, and retaliate against all forms of criticisms towards them

I do truly agree that there are morally corrupt police and politicians (e.g. Junius Ho) that need to be punished and investigated, but the fact that this movement is gripped by this immature mentality will set the tone for things to come. Instead of having a battle of justice vs injustice, we have people fighting lies with lies, injustices with injustices. Nothing good can come out of this.

Edit: I also want to highlight that the masked protesters do act like a gang. The following a sample of antics we see on a daily basis. Every day is a different brand of crap. Even if the police were wrong for overuse of violence, I feel everyone needs to be held accountable for their own actions:
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[Moriarte]

Professional riot mercenaries hired to paint a picture of “peaceful protests” in one of the wealthiest cities on the planet. Well equipped and subsidized, powered by the latest in the rioting tech. Extremely vulnerable to rolling internet blackouts .

 

[red_elk]

Welcome to post-truth era. China is "Nazi Germany" and must be portrayed as such regardless of what's really happening there.

 

[classical_hero]

The protesters are flying the American and British flags. Yet in Portland we see Antifa fly the Chinese flag. I propose a swap.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Welcome to post-truth era. China is "Nazi Germany" and must be portrayed as such regardless of what's really happening there.

Hah. As Hiram Johnson said "The first casualty when war comes is truth".

Speaking of post-truth era, I would recommend this book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/...to-unfreedom-by-timothy-snyder/9780525574477/

One of the major themes is that people are nostalgic about a non-existent Utopian past that is engineered by propagandists. Another major theme is the idea of an eternal victim where the people encourage to believe they are completely innocent of wrongdoings due to oppressive forces from the outside forcing their conditions upon them.

 

[Commodore]

Welcome to post-truth era. China is "Nazi Germany" and must be portrayed as such regardless of what's really happening there.

No, more like they are Nazi Germany and we shouldn't give their government a platform to attempt to minimize, downplay, and spin the actual atrocities they are committing.

It also worries me that you seem so willing to stand up for one of the most downright evil governments on the planet. You're from Russia right? Makes me wonder about what your state-run media that is decidedly anti-Western is telling you and how that's affecting your perspective. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to take a dig at you personally, I'm just worried there is a very real chance your government is deliberately misleading you and keeping you from seeing China for what it really is.

 

[Farm Boy]

Welcome to post-truth era. China is "Nazi Germany" and must be portrayed as such regardless of what's really happening there.

This is bull****. 5 years ago I went there, and the expats that had not reason to bullfeathers me mentioned A) there is no bad news in China and B) things like trains effing up and killing 200 people at a time being verboten to know happens on the regular. I believe them. They aren't anti-chinese or dedicated capitalists or whatever bullshizer. That place literally makes you disappear if you're loud enough to be noticed and off the script. It's a horsehocky-ass government. All that harmony isn't free, noob.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Post-truth era has always been here. But while in western democracies we are still scandalized and governments can even fall if caught in a lie, in communist and other totalitarian regimes post-truth has always been a fundamental part of the whole system and the standard and accepted way of doing things.

 

[Moriarte]

It also worries me that you seem so willing to stand up for one of the most downright evil governments on the planet. You're from Russia right? Makes me wonder about what your state-run media that is decidedly anti-Western is telling you and how that's affecting your perspective. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to take a dig at you personally, I'm just worried there is a very real chance your government is deliberately misleading you and keeping you from seeing China for what it really is.

Russian media is pro-western. To make it easier for you, let’s take it one step further, Russia is pro-capitalist. It shares politicial-economical formation with the western world and this is where majority of it’s propaganda (I always mean this word in a neutral sense) is based upon. The last thing russian oligarchs want is to be stripped of their property and start sharing their profits with the working folk through mechanisms controlled by the governement, like the Chinese do. Russian oligarchs want to channel most of their profits abroad, like most normal capitalist oligarchs do, not share it with local “peasants”. Russia (economically) can’t be pro-Chinese even in theory, my friend. It’s part of the western world and the oligarchs will try to protect themselves from the communism until their dying breath, just like any other capitalist oligarchs.

Including conjuring up one billion atrocities Chinese regime commits every day before lunch.

 

[red_elk]

It also worries me that you seem so willing to stand up for one of the most downright evil governments on the planet.

I have no reason to stand up for them, neither our media portray them in a good light. I want what you called "fair reporting". And cannot trust Western media on that, because nothing changed since Colin Powell's beaker story.

 

[Moriarte]

No, more like they are Nazi Germany and we shouldn't give their government a platform to attempt to minimize, downplay, and spin the actual atrocities they are committing.

No one is asking you for your permission. China’s influence reach spans billions of people. They have their own google, youtube, facebook, amazon, news outlets. You either become part of that or go your own way and stagnate because you ran out of markets to sell to. Your biggest problem right now is that China doesn’t want you in and unlike you China can protect itself from infiltrations very well. So yeah, keep “denying them platform”, see how well it works.

 

[red_elk]

This is bull****. 5 years ago I went there, and the expats that had not reason to bullfeathers me mentioned A) there is no bad news in China and B) things like trains effing up and killing 200 people at a time being verboten to know happens on the regular.

Take two people, American liberal and ultra-conservative. Discuss politics with them and learn their worldview. You'll get completely different picture from each one of them despite both have no reason to lie to you.

I believe them.

We believe the ones whose position best corresponds to our already existing worldview.

 

[Farm Boy]

Opinion of people changing the wrong direction too fast for that.

Either way, it was more noting differences. There was an awful lot of nice stuff too. At least around where we happened to see. People are people wherever they are.