General News Regarding China & Hong Kong

[Bugfatty300]

I love presenting the other side. I am a Communist, but I have nothing to do with the CCP.

In that case your hobby is actually undercutting people who make a living by spreading the facts of the true and righteous side. Scabs get out.

 

[Ferocitus]

In that case your hobby is actually undercutting people who make a living by spreading the facts of the true and righteous side.

Which ones are they in HK? The anarchists, libertarians, right-wingers, socialists, shop-keepers or some other labelled group?

I just love watching people here get all het up about Hong Kong, especially the ones who have no intention of doing anything more than downvoting something with their Made in China equipment.
It's a surreal farce and it's my preferred viewing when there's nothing better on TV or youtube. No organisation, no plan, just like the protesters. It could only be weirder and more pathetic with the Benny Hill theme as background music.

 

[Samson]

A couple of points from Carrie Lam's speech:

Hong Kong [does] have freedom of speech
calls for Hong Kong independence would not be tolerated​

I am not sure how both these can be true.

 

[Ferocitus]

A couple of points from Carrie Lam's speech:

Hong Kong [does] have freedom of speech
calls for Hong Kong independence would not be tolerated​

I am not sure how both these can be true.

It's really difficult to fathom, which is why you need to think in terms of goodies and baddies.

Commies are the baddies, by definition, so US companies in China are collaborating with the baddies,
and shareholders in those companies are ideological war profiteers, so they're baddies too.

HongKongers just want the freedoms that all Americans enjoy, e.g. amnesty for arson committed during the actions formerly known as riots,
so they're the goodies.

Russians are always the baddies and they are usually called Boris and Natasha.
Moose and squirrel are the goodies.

QED.

 

[aelf]

Vietnam has banned a DreamWorks animated film over South China Sea map. The film, a collaboration between DreamWorks and China-based Pearl Studio, features the Nine-Dash Line Map, which represents China's controversial claims over much of the sea. The scene might also end up being censored in the Philippines.

It's hard to defend China's expansionist ambitions. Looks like large American companies might really be coming to a crossroads over how they do business with China. It's also a test for international capitalism - will it hold up or will trading blocs form like it's the Cold War all over again?

 

[Socrates99]

Vietnam has banned a DreamWorks animated film over South China Sea map. The film, a collaboration between DreamWorks and China-based Pearl Studio, features the Nine-Dash Line Map, which represents China's controversial claims over much of the sea. The scene might also end up being censored in the Philippines.

It's hard to defend China's expansionist ambitions. Looks like large American companies might really be coming to a crossroads over how they do business with China. It's also a test for international capitalism - will it hold up or will trading blocs form like it's the Cold War all over again?

Money or morals, money or morals...my guess is the American corporations that gutted the industry in the US are likely to do everything they can to keep China in the loop regardless of what it does. Look at the conundrum the NBA has been in over criticism of China.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Commies are the baddies, by definition, so US companies in China are collaborating with the baddies,

Specifically, authoritarian trash + human rights violations are bad things. In this regard, US companies aren't just "collaborating with baddies", many of them would still be "baddies" even if China didn't exist. A big part of the reason for this outcry is that Blizzard itself chose to behave like China, right down to its inconsistent rule applications and punishing people by association (the two interviewers in particular)...while ignoring people breaking the rules identically in the USA. They then lied about this and that China was the reason.

Even if we were to erase China's atrocities, there is sound reasoning to straight up hate Blizzard independently. That's what proven liars who can't play by their own rules and cower from the feedback earn.

I hold UK and the EU as only somewhat better than China in terms of how the governance/laws work (apparently being awkward and touching someone on the arm is a "sexual assault" conviction in the UK, which is the same place that internet trolling can get you a police visit), and am far from trusting US government for anything but actions to keep the two major parties in power. Doesn't change the fact that China's atrocities and authoritarian shutdown of speech is worse.

 

[Ferocitus]

Goodies and Baddies slug it out...

3 days ago: A Hong Kong police officer was slashed in the neck by a protester as clashes continued following an escalation of violence earlier this month in demonstrations that began in June.

Today: Reports say Jimmy Shan, leader of one of Hong Kong's largest pro-democracy groups, was set upon by a group of up to five hammer-wielding men in the Mong Kok district of the Kowloon peninsula, and left with head injuries.

Which is which? You be the judge.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can have human filth on either side of any cause, and involving large numbers you will have it. There are things you and some 1800's slave owners would agree on, but that doesn't mean you endorse or even necessarily tolerate slavery.

 

[Senethro]

Do you really hate Blizzard though?

Or do you hate capitalism?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Do you really hate Blizzard though?

Or do you hate capitalism?

Blizzard has done enough to garner specific/special hatred by openly and repeatedly lying to their consumers and unevenly enforcing "standards", all while acting in a hypocritical fashion. Similar to EA's committing fraud, this can and should earn them negative reputation beyond other companies. They aren't just bad, they are bad in a noticeable/special/outstanding way.

Capitalism leads to preferable outcomes when compared to communism, but I'm not convinced that I like it, or that it will necessarily hold up as automation becomes sufficiently powerful/consistent.

 

[Takhisis]

Pffft! Stop it with the white hat, black hat Manichean garbage. Even middle-of-the road US media outlets like Politico think that kind of rubbish is harmful to you in the long-run.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/15/donald-trump-china-trade-war-hostility-229851

It's too one-sided here - I love presenting the other side. I am a Communist, but I have nothing to do with the CCP - they have their means and methods which are appropriate for their region and their interests at this time in their history and development, but not elsewhere. (For the record, I'm a Lithuanian living in Australia.)

I know a little about what Chinese ambitions are, the means they will use, what they are aiming for. I learned a lot from some of my Australian comrades who went to China in 1952. They are not Maoists, nor Stalinists (having broken away after the Hungarian takeover). They kept in contact with parties in those countries and a couple of wharfies (your longshoremen?), founded Australia-Russia and Australia-China friendship associations.

The last one with living memory of the 1952 visit to China was a friend of the family, Elliot Johnson, a Supreme Court judge here in South Australia, who died a couple of years ago. I spoke many times to Elliot and others those who went there then (after they finished their WW2 army stints in New Guinea), and read what they reported back from those visits.

I have scientific contact with some Russian and Chinese scientists. My professor, colleague and later supervisor at Adelaide Uni gave a series of invited talks about our work on Internal Waves and Submarine Detection in China. Our Defence Dept. and Navy funded our work for several years and were aware of the talks we prepared.

I guess your experience has been gleaned from newspaper articles?

The highlighted part is what takes credibility from everything else you're saying. It's an ad hominem ‘argument’. Since it's them it's OK.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

^ Ad hominem is an attempt to defeat an argument by attacking the character of the person making it rather than addressing what the person said. There are problems with the rationale Ferocitus used (the implication that human rights violations are region/situation appropriate is...interesting and opens the door for things he'd usually decry), but that's not an example of ad hominem.

 

[Ferocitus]

The highlighted part is what takes credibility from everything else you're saying. It's an ad hominem ‘argument’. Since it's them it's OK.

Nothing to do with "ad hominem" at all.
It's Ok for the CCP to fight their Civil War and against counter-revolutionaries in their own country in their own way.
In Angola, Mozambique and Vietnam it was fought in a different way. As it was in the USA and USSR when they had their Revolutionary War, Civil War and subsequent struggles.

It's also their decision on how to handle Hong Kong, and whether the "One Country, Two Systems" is still appropriate. The CCP have no reason to honour any agreements with the UK that were made to get the handover over done with at the time. If the UK don't like it they can downvote the CCP on Facebook, which is about all the power and influence (and political credibility) they have over anyone any more.

 

[Bugfatty300]

^ Ad hominem is an attempt to defeat an argument by attacking the character of the person making it rather than addressing what the person said. There are problems with the rationale Ferocitus used (the implication that human rights violations are region/situation appropriate is...interesting and opens the door for things he'd usually decry), but that's not an example of ad hominem.

I believe the fallacy being pointed out would be called "special pleading"

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's also their decision on how to handle Hong Kong, and whether the "One Country, Two Systems" is still appropriate. The CCP have no reason to honour any agreements with the UK that were made to get the handover over done with at the time. If the UK don't like it they can downvote the CCP on Facebook, which is about all the power and influence (and political credibility) they have over anyone any more.

No way, that's a crime in UK.

Or was it upvoting something inflammatory? Hard to keep track these days.

 

[Ferocitus]

I believe the fallacy being pointed out would be called "special pleading"

It's Ok for the CCP to fight their Civil War and against counter-revolutionaries in their own country in their own way.
In Angola, Mozambique and Vietnam it was fought in a different way. As it was in the USA and USSR when they had their Revolutionary War, Civil War and subsequent struggles.

I plead that it was General Pleading.

Uh-oh, a new front just opened up in Nepal where Maoists laid the groundwork 30 years ago, and the CCP have now committed to building a railway through the mountains.
Got your mouses ready and loaded, freedom-clickers?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Behold this wonder of communism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...0-million-corrupt-Chinese-officials-home.html

A powerful Communist official in China is suspected to have received 13.5 tonnes of gold and £30 billion cash in bribes.
Thousands of golden bars and bricks were discovered at the leader's home during a raid by corruption inspectors earlier this month.
Their value could be worth up to £520 million, according to international trading prices.
...
Mr Zhang was the secretary of the Communist Party Committee of Haikou, the provincial capital city of Hainan with a population around nine million people.
He had equal power as the city's mayor, according to the ranking of Chinese Communist party officials.

That... is a lot of bribes.
$1 million a day, every day, for 100 years still falls short of what Mr. Zhang managed to accumulate.

 

[caketastydelish]

Since when did China have a conventional army? Don't they use Kung-Fu fighting?

 

[abradley]

Hear, hear!

There is a short break at about 9:00.