[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Sommerswerd]

The Minneapolis City Council is apparently trying to de-fund and dismantle the police department.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/us/george-floyd-protests-sunday/index.html

 

[Lexicus]

Does anyone really believe that these protests are going to achieve anything?

The protests have already achieved things I would have said were impossible bare weeks ago.

Case in point:

The Minneapolis City Council is apparently trying to de-fund and dismantle the police department.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/07/us/george-floyd-protests-sunday/index.html

My question is what are the cops going to do in response? There's almost nothing I would put past them, and just to be clear I'm talking about a level of violence beyond anything we have seen so far. Assassinations, takeovers of municipal and perhaps even state governments (similar to what happened in the late 19th century when white people in the South decided they weren't going to allow black people to participate in politics), off-duty cops acting as militia, etc, etc.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/1186468303897812992

Spoiler :

You may think this is crazy but as the twitter thread linked above summarizes it would actually be par for the course in American history.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Sounds like rioting doesn't work, look, they're even disbanding the police. Just like they wanted.

 

[Commodore]

My question is what are the cops going to do in response? There's almost nothing I would put past them, and just to be clear I'm talking about a level of violence beyond anything we have seen so far. Assassinations, takeovers of municipal and perhaps even state governments (similar to what happened in the late 19th century when white people in the South decided they weren't going to allow black people to participate in politics), off-duty cops acting as militia, etc, etc.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/1186468303897812992

Spoiler :

You may think this is crazy but as the twitter thread linked above summarizes it would actually be par for the course in American history.

That's precisely why the general citizenry needs to know how to organize a militia as well. I've been thinking of making copies of and distributing my Warrior Skills Level 1 manual. It's not classified information and it will provide anyone who reads it with a basic military education so they can at least have a chance of being effective on a battlefield instead of just running around aimlessly like it's a COD match or something.

 

[innonimatu]

My question is what are the cops going to do in response? There's almost nothing I would put past them, and just to be clear I'm talking about a level of violence beyond anything we have seen so far. Assassinations, takeovers of municipal and perhaps even state governments (similar to what happened in the late 19th century when white people in the South decided they weren't going to allow black people to participate in politics), off-duty cops acting as militia, etc, etc.

Isn't it obvious? They'll be employed in a corporation that will sell their services to the city for twice the cost of the police department. And keep beating people up. And killing the occasional one, preferably with more "investment in positive PR" to cover it up. Who did the privatization of prisons go?

Never underestimate your politicians. As Obama's chief adviser, who was no stranger to slimy municipal politics also, once said: "never let a good crisis go to waste".

It's very simple: the rot started on top, police there us under the control of the cities. You can't trust those people to resolve the problems, you have to start by replacing them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

That's precisely why the general citizenry needs to know how to organize a militia as well. I've been thinking of making copies of and distributing my Warrior Skills Level 1 manual. It's not classified information and it will provide anyone who reads it with a basic military education so they can at least have a chance of being effective on a battlefield instead of just running around aimlessly like it's a COD match or something.

If only we could respawn. Military tactics would likely look very different, but it would be even better with civilian applications.

Anyway, the race-baiting in this case kind of annoys me. Law enforcement as an institution is much more generally broken than that, flagrantly discriminating on the basis of other races, gender, wealth, and garden-variety corruption as well. Just one example:

• https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/07/31/dallas-police-body-cam-video-tony-timpa-in-custody-death/
• https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/tony-timpa/

At least in Floyd's case there was a murder charge. But now I doubt that would have happened if not for the outcry over it, because these cases are otherwise very similar and there's no way an autopsy ruling the death a "homicide" should have charges dismissed in this context...especially given the officers at the scene lied about what happened.

How many similar cases are out there? If law enforcement can get away with this when the media isn't looking (and they essentially did get away with it), what can't they get away with? Not a whole lot. We need the same rules for everyone and that does unfortunately seem to imply that a large % of law enforcement needs to be replaced + given stricter standards. More stringent body cam requirements will help, but it clearly isn't enough on its own.

This doesn't even touch on less extreme but still unacceptable practices, such as "use a tazer on a college girl who is lying face down, cuffed and restrained". That isn't just excessive, any non-cop who first defended themselves and then whipped out a tazer in such a context would be a defendant in court. That standard can't disappear while wearing the badge. Not if we want this to actually work.

 

[zxcvbob]

Isn't it obvious? They'll be employed in a corporation that will sell their services to the city for twice the cost of the police department. And keep beating people up. And killing the occasional one, preferably with more "investment in positive PR" to cover it up. Who did the privatization of prisons go?

Never underestimate your politicians. As Obama's chief adviser, who was no stranger to slimy municipal politics also, once said: "never let a good crisis go to waste".

It's very simple: the rot started on top, police there us under the control of the cities. You can't trust those people to resolve the problems, you have to start by replacing them.

That's actually an improvement from the status quo even tho' it doesn't sound like it. Private corporations won't have qualified immunity.

 

[Lexicus]

Isn't it obvious? They'll be employed in a corporation that will sell their services to the city for twice the cost of the police department. And keep beating people up. And killing the occasional one, preferably with more "investment in positive PR" to cover it up. Who did the privatization of prisons go?

Privatization of prisons is not actually that widespread in the US. Indeed, I always regarded the abolition of private prisons (something pushed by Liz Warren and other liberal politicians) as a weaksauce demand, because private prisons make up such a small part of the overall prison system. I don't believe people will accept "turn things over to private security" as a solution to these problems. Here is a possible model for where things could go:
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...tests/65-c8f377a4-c2d4-4659-86e0-3fd13ec3dbc2

Never underestimate your politicians. As Obama's chief adviser, who was no stranger to slimy municipal politics also, once said: "never let a good crisis go to waste".

It's very simple: the rot started on top, police there us under the control of the cities. You can't trust those people to resolve the problems, you have to start by replacing them.

Well, I do expect many municipal governments to be replaced at election time. I also don't think people are trusting the municipal governments to solve the problems, that's why they're in the streets.

But, you are right in the sense that the police are there primarily to enable capital to squeeze as much profits as possible out of the cities...and so ultimately confronting police power in the US means confronting the way society is organized in a much broader way than simply restraining the worst excesses of the police.

 

[Bugfatty300]

The courts will probably halt any attempt to disband the MPD and they'll perpetually be a police department at war with it's own city. A literal occupied city.

 

[cardgame]

How would the courts stop it? And if they do they can just cut the budget to literally nothing, the city controls the police, not the other way around.

 

[rah]

Wasn't there a city in NJ that disbanded their force? So precedence has been set.

 

[cardgame]

Missouri and NJ both, pre-Ferguson even.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Wasn't there a city in NJ that disbanded their force? So precedence has been set.

The article Lex linked to is about Camden, NJ.

Here is a possible model for where things could go:
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...tests/65-c8f377a4-c2d4-4659-86e0-3fd13ec3dbc2

Thanks for the article. I worked for the public defender in Camden a decade ago and it was pretty bad back then. The police had a terrible reputation with the office for misconduct, lying, etc... Camden was a very sad place... so if they've started from scratch and turned things around for the people of Camden I would be very happy to hear that.

 

[rah]

Every time I think of privatization of the police, for some reason I think robocop

 

[Bugfatty300]

How would the courts stop it? And if they do they can just cut the budget to literally nothing, the city controls the police, not the other way around.

Police and their union will sue to keep their jobs, they could arrest city officials who cut the budget/paychecks for violating judge orders, etc. There's a ton of tricks up there sleeves as long as the system favors the police. The battle isn't over yet.

Edit: And thats before they might resort intimidation and outright thuggery to keep in power as Lexicus suggested.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Missouri and NJ both, pre-Ferguson even.

Small towns or where they cities as big as Minneapolis?

 

[Lexicus]

Small towns or where they cities as big as Minneapolis?

Camden has fewer than 100,000 people but it's right across the river from Philadelphia and surrounded by built-up area so it isn't really a "small town."

 

[Sommerswerd]

Every time I think of privatization of the police, for some reason I think robocop

OMG the scene in Robocop 2 where they show the new prototypes is hilarious. I lose my horsehocky every time I watch the scene

Privatization indeed

 

[Lexicus]

This one made me laugh out loud irl:

 

[Bugfatty300]

Camden has fewer than 100,000 people but it's right across the river from Philadelphia and surrounded by built-up area so it isn't really a "small town."

Camden is way bigger than the small town I was thinking of. Still, a big city like Minneapolis taking the extra step by replacing traditional police with a new alternative is itself truly revolutionary.