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Germany discriminating against Jews or protecting children ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by GoodSarmatian, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    A German court recently ruled that circumcision constitutes bodily harm.

    What do you think about this ? Do parents have a right to cut off parts of their childrens body as a sacrifice to their God (that's what it is right ?) or should it be up to the child to decide whether or not to pay the foreskin tribute as an adult ?
    I'm with the German court on this. Richard Dawkins once ranted that a child does not have a religion and that labeling a toddler jewish or muslim makes about as much sense as to call a a three year old a communist or liberal. I tend to agree with him.
     
  2. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

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    I think Germany is doing the right thing here.

    Circumscison has many serious implications and I would hate that decison being made for me. Leave it till your 18 in my book; you can give informed consent then.
     
  3. rugbyLEAGUEfan

    rugbyLEAGUEfan Deity

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    Of course the judge is correct. Unfortunately the judge is ahead of his time and correct is not yet the standard.
     
  4. Aroddo

    Aroddo Emperor

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    how can banning religious mutilation of infants ever be wrong?

    Besides that, why does the OP single out the Jews? Even his quote states that Muslim groups are affected. Trying to bait the usual germans-are-nazis stuff right from post #1?
     
  5. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    There are probably far more Muslims in Germany than Jews. In a way I agree but I think circumcision is so wrapped up in people's culture that it would be very difficult to change. This will probably lead to Muslims taking their boys to their home countries to do it and it will be done at a later age and probably more painful to them.
     
  6. GoodSarmatian

    GoodSarmatian Jokerfied Western Male

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    Because it draws more attention. :D
     
  7. Snorrius

    Snorrius Le libre-penseur

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    Snorrius approves this decision.
     
  8. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    I think it was the right thing to do.
     
  9. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    It's pretty obvious that the intention is not to discriminate against anyone, but, as I have been recently informed, the actual effect would be a very serious problem for (at least [some]) Jews. I'm sympathetic to both sides of the ban question. I would like to hear from more Jews arguing against any bans.

    I don't think it's done as a sacrifice to god, but as a sort of marker of who's in the club. It's really important to some people.
     
  10. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One

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    I am with Luzy here. In principle the court did the right thing. In practice, this may be a too big blow to religious communities which does more harm than upholding the principle good. A case of theoretics clashing with the realities of a society.
    Though that may keep out all the evil Muzlims!!!! :D
     
  11. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    Yeah we do risk that many Muslims and Jews will try to circumsise the children themselves. That might lead to problems for the young boys...
     
  12. Aroddo

    Aroddo Emperor

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    hah! :)
     
  13. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    Then make it a criminal offence to participate in it against the child's will.

    Sod off with religious justifications.
     
  14. AL_DA_GREAT

    AL_DA_GREAT amour absinthe révolution

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    99% of those affected will be muslims.

    If it can't be justified medically than it should be illegal to preform on minors. It is in a sense plastic surgery since it is an unnecessary procedure done for cultural reasons. It isn't different from making a 14 year old's breasts larger.
     
  15. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    What if I have a religion that says God will only love you if you have breast implants before you enter adulthood?

    It's my right to do this! :mad::mad::mad:
     
  16. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    Will the law be guided by the purposes of the physical alterations to the body or will this law create a precedent that will disallow ALL bodily alterations? Should it?

    If a child has a tumor, we will disallow removal of the tumor or other abnormal aspects of the body, if they are deemed non-life threatening?
     
  17. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    Please point out to me where removing the foreskin is akin to removing a tumor.
     
  18. AL_DA_GREAT

    AL_DA_GREAT amour absinthe révolution

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    If you are an adult yes. Babies can't choose so they can't choose to have it.
     
  19. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    But my religion clearly states before adulthood! Would you dare impede my right to practice my religion freely?! :mad:
     
  20. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One

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    @JohnRM
    Germany has no common law. "Precedents" only exist in so far as that a judge cares to follow it. That has the consequence that the legal judgment of the specific circumstances of a specific case are unfit to establish some kind of new principle unless other judges are willing to go along with it. Judges often will follow loose guidelines of a precedent when established by y a court of a higher level, but never in a way which is free of context.
    Moreover, having studied some German law myself, I can assure you that what this verdict is based on is the reasoning that a child may only receive physical harm for the purpose of preventing even further physical harm (like cancer).
     

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