Global warming strikes again...

[Gorbles]

(narrator's voice)

Mouthwash doesn't get it.

 

[onejayhawk]

But shouldn't the Arctic be ice free this summer?

On a normal planet, yes. However, on this one the water on the fringes of the Arctic cap is so shallow that there no warm currents, so ice does not break up and flow south every year. The expected ice caps on our sort of planet is zero. However, we have a continent under one pole and what is close to a salt water lake at the other.

J

 

[hobbsyoyo]

On a normal planet, yes. However, on this one the water on the fringes of the Arctic cap is so shallow that there no warm currents, so ice does not break up and flow south every year. The expected ice caps on our sort of planet is zero. However, we have a continent under one pole and what is close to a salt water lake at the other.

J

This is just, no.

 

[Senethro]

Curious use of the word normal... definite value implied.

 

[Arakhor]

On a normal planet, yes.

How much experience do you have with other life-bearing planets in the universe?

 

[Mouthwash]

You have to admit, an internet message board would be a pretty good place for aliens to scope out human conversation.

 

[El_Machinae]

To answer classical hero, there's a pile of difficulty separating headlines from actual science. From the science end of things, Arctic sea ice is pretty worrying.

Keep in mind how many positive feedback loops are kicking in when the Arctic thaws.

IPCC AR4 predictions (ignore the observation line, that's old)

 

[Lexicus]

(ignore the observation line, that's old)

Don't ignore it; notice that it's below all the prediction lines

 

[Hrothbern]

We are really screwing up big time

I saw a while ago an article that highlighted that just planting "enough" trees is not as simple as it appears.
Besides the relative big surface needed...

Trees grow a lot slower when they do not get "enough" water !

And areas that get normally "enough" rain become less usefull in amount of wood grown, in washing out CO2 from the air, when rain patterns change because of climate changes.

 

[El_Machinae]

Don't ignore it; notice that it's below all the prediction lines

I mean, just don't think it's current for this year.

 

[Lexicus]

I mean, just don't think it's current for this year.

Oh, I know what you meant. But I don't want people to get the wrong idea. If that line were current for today, it would look more disturbing, not less.

 

[Old Hippy]

We are really screwing up big time

I saw a while ago an article that highlighted that just planting "enough" trees is not as simple as it appears.
Besides the relative big surface needed...

Trees grow a lot slower when they do not get "enough" water !

this is probably cross thread... with the ''some-outlandish-claims-about-agriculture thread''

/https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/some-outlandish-claims-about-agriculture.648732/

but the permaculture 'cult' has been pointing out since 1943 how soil contains/sequesters more carbon than all the plant biosphere

At the global level, 19 percent of the carbon in the earth's biosphere is stored in plants, and 81 percent in the soil. In all forests, tropical, temperate and boreal together, approximately 31 percent of the carbon is stored in the biomass and 69 percent in the soil.

in 1945 after the end of WWII industrial farming became a reality (when a use for nitrogen and phosphorus used in both farming and munitions manufacture was needed) and modern farming was born with a captive market for its products... in 1970's round up became available...
the modern farming practices turn over bare soil releasing carbon to the atmosphere killing soil bacteria and fungi and releasing nitrogen to soil for weed growth... making round up necessary for crop growth BUT if you plant into the cover crop where the existing bacteria and fungi are fed by the plant making sugars in their leaves and transporting it to the soil where and they in turn break down elements... that the plant needs for healthy growth
a holistic cover crop as armour for the soil reduces evaporation and sequesters carbon to the soil which improves soil and reduces chemical inputs needed for crops
it is claimed and science tested that a holistic approach to farming improves soil carbon by about 1% per year... just by growing crops more with grazing on a rotational basis... it has been used on small farms as well as on corn farms covering several thousand acres
modern monsanto industrial farming techniques are responsible for the loss of approximately

Each year, an estimated 24 billion tonnes of fertile soil are lost due to erosion. ln the USA alone That's 3.4 tonnes lost every year for every person on the planet.

the mistake the ancient Babylonians made was switching to a MONO crop system and destroying the balance of mother earth... look at the deserts around where mono culture began or the dead zones in the gulf of Mexico
holistic farming practices are being re-exported back to Africa India and Asia by 'crazy old hippy types' in the western world and its estimated that if they can increase soil fertility by 1-2% per year it could lower carbon in the atmosphere to preindustrial levels in as little as 10 years and provide improving sustainable soil fertility for the next 1000 or so years
... just saying

 

[Hrothbern]

this is probably cross thread... with the ''some-outlandish-claims-about-agriculture thread''

/https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/some-outlandish-claims-about-agriculture.648732/

but the permaculture 'cult' has been pointing out since 1943 how soil contains/sequesters more carbon than all the plant biosphere

in 1945 after the end of WWII industrial farming became a reality (when a use for nitrogen and phosphorus used in both farming and munitions manufacture was needed) and modern farming was born with a captive market for its products... in 1970's round up became available...
the modern farming practices turn over bare soil releasing carbon to the atmosphere killing soil bacteria and fungi and releasing nitrogen to soil for weed growth... making round up necessary for crop growth BUT if you plant into the cover crop where the existing bacteria and fungi are fed by the plant making sugars in their leaves and transporting it to the soil where and they in turn break down elements... that the plant needs for healthy growth
a holistic cover crop as armour for the soil reduces evaporation and sequesters carbon to the soil which improves soil and reduces chemical inputs needed for crops
it is claimed and science tested that a holistic approach to farming improves soil carbon by about 1% per year... just by growing crops more with grazing on a rotational basis... it has been used on small farms as well as on corn farms covering several thousand acres
modern monsanto industrial farming techniques are responsible for the loss of approximately
the mistake the ancient Babylonians made was switching to a MONO crop system and destroying the balance of mother earth... look at the deserts around where mono culture began or the dead zones in the gulf of Mexico
holistic farming practices are being re-exported back to Africa India and Asia by 'crazy old hippy types' in the western world and its estimated that if they can increase soil fertility by 1-2% per year it could lower carbon in the atmosphere to preindustrial levels in as little as 10 years and provide improving sustainable soil fertility for the next 1000 or so years
... just saying

Thanks for that info
yes !... there has been learned a lot by the human race by empiral methods... it's now up to us to learn from that empirical knowledge in an science understanding way !
And start with Civil Engineering of top-soil in a sustainable way.

Another ancient top soil culturing was the terra preta in the Amazone area, the black earth where charcoal plays an important role with bacteria. That terra preta from tribes living there before we arrived there. Over the centuries they made a two meter thick fertile top soil layer. (and as such the top soil of tropical forest is poor soil).
Do note: charcoal... NOT burned wood for the minerals only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
This method can readily be applied to our existing big mass farming plots with the charcoal only to store carbon from wood in the ground.

On your info:
IDK whether the quantitative statements of what you refer to are correct.
Does not fit with the rough estimates I have in my head.
But I will dig in.

It's a bit like medical treatments:
we started with wise women & medicin men for herbs and mechanical cutting of "surgeons".
Now we apply biochemistry with still natural vegetables with traditional use as empirical input.
But once at the level of receptors and metabolic pathways we are in another league.

Same should happen with top-soil knowledge.
The interaction with bacteria making it very complex. Also because certain plants interact-favor-surpress certain bacteria.
(a bit like our current lack of knowledge for now about the symbiotic interaction between gut bacteria and our own metabolic system)

My biggest issue here is that you absolutely need enough Fundamental Scientific research here !
And our politicians have curtailed our universities in that respect.
Whether neo-liberals pointing at universities to "earn" money with "working" for companies
or left-wing politicians pointing at the societal importance... as they see that at that moment... and that is mostly hyped and short sighted.

 

[Old Hippy]

Thanks for that info
yes !... there has been learned a lot by the human race by empiral methods... it's now up to us to learn from that empirical knowledge in an science understanding way !
And start with Civil Engineering of top-soil in a sustainable way.

Another ancient top soil culturing was the terra preta in the Amazone area, the black earth where charcoal plays an important role with bacteria. That terra preta from tribes living there before we arrived there. Over the centuries they made a two meter thick fertile top soil layer. (and as such the top soil of tropical forest is poor soil).
Do note: charcoal... NOT burned wood for the minerals only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
This method can readily be applied to our existing big mass farming plots with the charcoal only to store carbon from wood in the ground.

look up biochar... after making the Charcoal ( in a process that reburns the carbon gasses reducing what is getting into the atmosphere) about 30% of the carbon can be incorporated into compost
most permaculture starts with adding nitrogen producing plants... this compensates for the charcoals consumption of nitrogen... biochar greatest benefit is its complex structure that provides habitat to soil microbes

On your info:
IDK whether the quantitative statements of what you refer to are correct.
Does not fit with the rough estimates I have in my head.
But I will dig in.

some PDF to get you started... ... regenarative vs substainable
scholar.google.com.au/scholar?q=permaculture+soil+regeneration&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
if you look up some permaculture conventions they have samples of farmers ... Gabe Brown or Bruce Charles "Bill" Mollison the 'father' of modern permaculture or polyculture
Gabe has some practical examples on his farmed (not all owned) 5000 acres under cultivation he usually has good examples of improving soil depth over several years... greatly saving on water use and run off/ erosion... science and google say it should take between 200 to a 1000 years... to get an inch of soil... science has not even named most of the bacteria and fungi found in soils yet...
what gets forgotten most is that cow farts ... as in methane has a life of about 9- 12 years in the atmosphere
one could almost say its a 'renewable resource' ... unlike the 30 to 60 million buffalo pre European settlement whose bones were exported to feed European agriculture fertility

It's a bit like medical treatments:
we started with wise women & medicin men for herbs and mechanical cutting of "surgeons".
Now we apply biochemistry with still natural vegetables with traditional use as empirical input.
But once at the level of receptors and metabolic pathways we are in another league.

crops grown in diverse bacterial and fungi soils have a measurable nutrient density improvement on industrial farmed produce...is it a coincidence that we now have an increase in so many'western diseases'

 

[Arwon]

Here's an article about the impacts of climate change on cricket

The Hit for Six report, released in England, examines how climate change is drying out cricket grounds, making players more vulnerable to heat stress and increasing the likelihood of match disruptions from extreme weather – and how governing bodies need to do more to address the problem.

Australian spin bowling legend Share Warne was so shocked by the report he urged cricket leaders to “be proactive, not reactive” and called on authorities to act now against “humanity’s most pressing challenge”.

Climate change is already leading to more extreme heatwaves. Unless we act, extreme heat will worsen. This will result in more games being postponed, poorer performance because of heat influenced cognitive deterioration and increased likelihood of heat exhaustion and heat stroke.

At present Melbourne experiences nine very hot days exceeding 35 degrees on average each year. Scientists say this will increase to an average of 26 days over coming decades. In regional areas this can be much worse.

The climate is already changing. When my club committee of management meets to discuss how we can keep our junior players safe on drying grounds and in more intense heatwaves, we are dealing with a symptom of climate change.

We increasingly have concerns about the impact of extreme heat on our junior players. Kids coming straight from a baking hot school to play an early evening game are vulnerable to heat stress, due to their inability to regulate body temperature as adult bodies can.

Summers in Australia have always been warm, but let’s not kid ourselves – eight out of the ten hottest years in Australia’s history have been since 2005. If global warming is allowed to continue at its current rate, Adelaide and Perth will have a 60% increase in days over 40 degrees in 2030 (compared to the 1981–2010 average). Sydney and Melbourne could see summer maximums up around 50 degrees.

Cricket depends on the weather like few other sports. Changes in rainfall and temperature change the movement of the ball and can turn a match.

Prolonged drought and competition for water puts intense pressure on cricket grounds and turf pitches in India, South Africa and Australia. Cyclones in the Caribbean are more regularly destroying grounds and stadiums. In England, flooding and changing rainfall patterns are causing havoc.

They even let the MCC members in their pavilllion take their jackets off for the second year in a row, amazing.

 

[Arwon]

My city just became the first outside of Europe to be source 100% green electricity so that's pretty cool

 

[Samson]

July sets global heat record

July was the hottest month ever recorded on Earth, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) said on 15 August. This marks the 43rd consecutive July, and the 415th consecutive month, that the global temperature has risen above its twentieth-century average. And 9 of the 10 warmest Julys in NOAA’s 140-year record have occurred since 2005. July 2019 was 0.95 °C warmer than last century’s mean of 15.8 °C, the agency said. Parts of Alaska, central Europe and southwest Asia were among the regions that experienced the warmest departures from average last month. The month came hot on the heels of the warmest June on record. The extra heat has helped to shrink Arctic sea-ice levels by nearly 20% — another record.​

 

[Hans66]

Don´t talk down to or trash talk Greta Thunberg now...
I´m sure someone have covered that already and had there subjective opinion about our climate "hero" so far which have now, as i have seen on the news, reached the US of A just recently. She sailed over in a glass bottle and one cork in it so she wouldn´t get lost on the Atlantic. Nah, on a regular sailboat. Neat.
So who´s for her and who´s against her?
(Those against her probably doesn´t want to give up on their car or something, probably).

I´m WITH her!
Good luck on your journey and mission in the USA now little woman.
Gods speed! Before it´s all lost....

 

[Estebonrober]

Scientists believe that the loss of bird populations is due to a variety of factors, chief among them habitat loss, intensifying agricultural production and disruption of coastal ecosystems, all of which are exacerbated by the intensifying impacts of anthropogenic climate change. In particular, the authors of the paper believe that the stunning losses of grassland bird populations are driven in large part by increased pesticide usage and habitat loss due to agriculture.

https://time.com/5681255/north-america-bird-population/

We need to rethink the post industrial fossil fuel economy on every level. Make changes now where possible and research how to scale up energy storage and commercial fuel efficiencies.

 

[classical_hero]

@onejayhawk I was referring to this.