God and the paradox of rational mind

[Ziggy Stardust]

He is trying to tell you to stop walking away.

How?

We slap God every day with our sins. We have to try to stop them if we are to be forgiven.

Slapping someone is intentional harming. Me having sex before marriage and thinking nothing of it isn't.

 

[StarWorms]

Bolded the "Bingo!" moment. You freely decided not to "get it". Then bolded the second one. You never gave God a chance. Your logic and rationality are viewed by you to be the most logical and rational explanation for all things in existance even over God's. Yes it is fair considering He gave you life and you never once consider the source. You walked away from your creator, and you rot by doing so. He is trying to tell you to stop walking away. But to do this you must do things the world considers irrational.
I wonder if you think of Christians as close minded when you yourself are unable to open your mind to a God.

If you're going to try and make a point the least you can do is actually read the quote. You just sound like an idiot otherwise. Re-read the quote again. But this time don't deliberately blank out the word "never" just so you can argue your point.

Please explain how you got

You freely decided not to "get it"

from

I never freely decided not to get it

This says humans have a part of their brain that helps God communicate to them. But since science cannot prove God exists this is just a 'feeling'. Nothing more. That is our prayer spot.

You're a joke.

Or are all your arguments sarcastic?

 

[King Flevance]

So is an increase of life expectancy of 28 in roman times (Wikipedia) to 80s as it stands now just a small amount? A 186% increase is small?

To create yourself you'd have to not exist in the first place. You can't create yourself if you already exist.

As to the first part, life expectancy is a nice thing. However, when you consider the not so nice things such as the amount of starvation and disease in the world, we have declined.

The second part goes into metaphysics. Without God nothing can exist. He is the bluepints of existance themselves.

How?

By having His word out there. It isn't His responsibility to make you pick it up and try applying it to your life.

 

[StarWorms]

As to the first part, life expectancy is a nice thing. However, when you consider the not so nice things such as the amount of starvation and disease in the world, we have declined.

There has always been starvation and disease. As god created all life and suffering on this planet, according to the bible, it is all god's fault.

 

[El_Machinae]

This says humans have a part of their brain that helps God communicate to them. But since science cannot prove God exists this is just a 'feeling'. Nothing more. That is our prayer spot.

Yes, we might have a 'prayer spot'. The vast number of religions out there, with people claiming this subjective sensation, pretty well shows that this 'prayer spot' can be trained into existence.

The fact that prayers to Odin and prayers to Jesus (or a good seizure, or jolt of electricity) all trigger this 'spot' shows how subjective it is. My personal belief is that it's a hiccup of brain evolution; a confusion between our ability to determine things as 'not us' and our ability to have internal dialogues.

It isn't so much about the asking. You can ask God a million times for forgiveness but you will not be forgiven unless you repent. If someone slaps you out of nowhere just because they can, I am sure you can forgive them. When they do it again, I am sure you can forgive them again. Around slap number 500+ even you and your forgiving nature are going to realize there is no reason to forgive them again until they stop slapping you.

We slap God every day with our sins. We have to try to stop them if we are to be forgiven.

I think that repentance and asking forgiveness are synonyms. Objectively, they can be different, but that's only because we don't know if people are being honest when they ask for forgiveness. My point is that humans can forgive, even if we don't feel that our aggressor was ever sorry for his actions.

 

[King Flevance]

If you're going to try and make a point the least you can do is actually read the quote. You just sound like an idiot otherwise. Re-read the quote again. But this time don't deliberately blank out the word "never" just so you can argue your point.

Please explain how you got

You freely decided not to "get it"

from

I never freely decided not to get it

OK. HannibalBarka said:

OK, I am among those who don't "get it", I never freely decided not to get it though.

Yet HannibalBarka has not ever tried to follow the teachings of God via the bible. How does this not include free will? God hasn't said that everyone except HannibalBarka can read His word. Plus, HannibalBarka used a double negative. You re-read it.

You're a joke.

Or are all your arguments sarcastic?

No, but when someone uses science to explain how the mind works when leaving out variables like God, who is to say I am wrong? Do you know for certain that I am? Or is it that because it is not in a science book, I am wrong?

 

[StarWorms]

Yet HannibalBarka has not ever tried to follow the teachings of God via the bible. How does this not include free will? God hasn't said that everyone except HannibalBarka can read His word. Plus, HannibalBarka used a double negative. You re-read it.

I already have re-read it. HannibalBarka used 2 negatives - you used 1. Negative is the opposite of positive! Re-read it again!

Have you ever tried to understand science? Don't be such a hypocrite. It works 2 ways.

 

[King Flevance]

There has always been starvation and disease. As god created all life and suffering on this planet, according to the bible, it is all god's fault.

God created life. Humans created suffering. Also, sure there have always starvation and disease, but there have always been life expectancies too. Where are the stats that you were happy to pull up about life expectancy?

Yes, we might have a 'prayer spot'. The vast number of religions out there, with people claiming this subjective sensation, pretty well shows that this 'prayer spot' can be trained into existence.

The fact that prayers to Odin and prayers to Jesus (or a good seizure, or jolt of electricity) all trigger this 'spot' shows how subjective it is. My personal belief is that it's a hiccup of brain evolution; a confusion between our ability to determine things as 'not us' and our ability to have internal dialogues.

Indeed this boils down to a belief thing once again. I do find this a fascinating discovery though.

I think that repentance and asking forgiveness are synonyms. Objectively, they can be different, but that's only because we don't know if people are being honest when they ask for forgiveness. My point is that humans can forgive, even if we don't feel that our aggressor was ever sorry for his actions.

But is that just to do so? It may appear as a gracious thing to do, but if someone is sorry they will not do it again. If they are not sorry, they will most certainly do it again.

 

[StarWorms]

No, but when someone uses science to explain how the mind works when leaving out variables like God, who is to say I am wrong? Do you know for certain that I am? Or is it that because it is not in a science book, I am wrong?

Why should an unfounded variable be included? For all you know the pen in front of me could have created the universe and all life and condensed itself into an inanimate object. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Why not include invisible and undetectable rays that clearly emanate from it telling all of life what to do. It controls the world and all life on it. The mighty pen should also be included as a variable.

 

[King Flevance]

I already have re-read it. HannibalBarka used 2 negatives - you used 1. Negative is the opposite of positive! Re-read it again!

Have you ever tried to understand science? Don't be such a hypocrite. It works 2 ways.

First, where am I a hypocrit? Your missing the point that HannibalBarka chooses to not acknowledge God by free will. And this is what condemns them. Their own free will.

The statement claims "I never freely acknowledged God's existance" When you can explain to me how you are not seeing that, I can make it make sense. Who is stopping HannibalBarka from acknowledging God's existance other than him/herself?

 

[El_Machinae]

No, but when someone uses science to explain how the mind works when leaving out variables like God, who is to say I am wrong? Do you know for certain that I am? Or is it that because it is not in a science book, I am wrong?

The Hindu try to incorporate the concept of a subjective experiencing of god into their universal framework. I guess the Abrahamic religions do too, but merely call the non-Christians 'deceived by demons' - which brings us back into the 'being in a team' problem; a Christian is happy to think that non-Christian faithful are being influenced by demons (even though subjectively, there seems to be no difference)

 

[StarWorms]

God created life. Humans created suffering. Also, sure there have always starvation and disease, but there have always been life expectancies too. Where are the stats that you were happy to pull up about life expectancy?

God created humans. God can do anything he likes and is ALL-KNOWING. He knew humans would create suffering. God likes people suffering as he knew this would happen. In christians' eyes god seems to be responsible for all the good things but never the bad things. You believe that god created everything so therefore he is responsible for everything. End of.

As I said in my post before the figure was from Wikipedia (go to the "Life Expectancy" page).

 

[El_Machinae]

But is that just to do so? It may appear as a gracious thing to do, but if someone is sorry they will not do it again. If they are not sorry, they will most certainly do it again.

So? I'm not talking about maximizing utility in a relationship, I'm talking about forgiveness. We're all able to do it. We're able to forgive strangers, the deceased, and friends - all without first requiring an apology. This is something that is not done by the Abrahamic gods (or encouraged in their religions).

Personally, I think it's an admirable trait, to have the ability to forgive without requiring an apology. Even if it bites you later, it seems to be the decent thing to do. Maybe not always the most prudent, but it's certainly encouraged.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

By having His word out there. It isn't His responsibility to make you pick it up and try applying it to your life.

I guess you mean the Bible. (edit: clarification: and not any of the other books claiming to have god's word)

Smarter men than I have argued for 2,000 years about the way to interpret the Bible. How does God tell me who to believe?

What if my interpretation of the bible is summed up in: "Try to love thy neighbour to the best of your ability".

I have picked it up and tried to apply it to life. But what if I'm wrong?

 

[King Flevance]

Why should an unfounded variable be included? For all you know the pen in front of me could have created the universe and all life and condensed itself into an inanimate object. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. Why not include invisible and undetectable rays that clearly emanate from it telling all of life what to do. It controls the world and all life on it. The mighty pen should also be included as a variable.

Truth is what I am after. And this part of science does not at all debunk any part of religion. It says our minds are programmed to have religion. And if the truth is that a God exists, would this not be a needed part of our mind?

If you want to worship a pen, man, go for it. I ain't stopping you.

Even El_Machina admits that his view of what this part of the mind is can only be speculated on. With the statement:

My personal belief is that it's a hiccup of brain evolution; a confusion between our ability to determine things as 'not us' and our ability to have internal dialogues.

 

[El_Machinae]

Even El_Machina admits that his view of what this part of the mind is can only be speculated on. With the statement:

We speculate because it's tough to do experiments in this area. To mimick this condition, we would need to cause damage to the brain (this is not desirable) - all we have to work with are people who get brain damage and then experience a religious 'conversion'.

The places where the damage occurs tells you what parts of the brain might be involved.

 

[StarWorms]

First, where am I a hypocrit? Your missing the point that HannibalBarka chooses to not acknowledge God by free will. And this is what condemns them. Their own free will.

You complain that HannibalBarka hasn't followed the teachings of God and yet clearly you know little about science. You don't have to follow the bible to understand that there's virtually no evidence to support it and tons of evidence stacked up against it.

The statement claims "I never freely acknowledged God's existance" When you can explain to me how you are not seeing that, it should make sense. Who is stopping HannibalBarka from acknowledging God's existance other than him/herself?

Look, you clearly don't understand how grammar works so I'll have to explain it to you.

I never freely decided not to get it

You freely decided not to "get it"

Incase you didn't notice you completely deleted the word "never" from your statement.

Here is the definition of "never" in case you don't understand its meaning:

nev·er (nĕv'ər)
adv.

1. Not ever; on no occasion; at no time: He had never been there before. You never can be sure.
2. Not at all; in no way; absolutely not: Never fear. That will never do.

Removing "never" completely changes a statement.

 

[King Flevance]

I guess you mean the Bible.

Smarter men than I have argued for 2,000 years about the way to interpret the Bible. How does God tell me who to believe?

What if my interpretation of the bible is summed up in: "Try to love thy neighbour to the best of your ability".

I have picked it up and tried to apply it to life. But what if I'm wrong?

Yes, the bible debate thing is fought over alot. But most of those arguements go into some really deep stuff. Searching for meaning to life and purpose of man.

There is more than 1 value that must be applied to ones life though. Along with helpful tools to do this. One I find hard is "Love those who would condemn you." Which does tie into love thy neighbors. But many different viewpoints are revealed in it so that the grand scale viewpoint can be better focused.

An important part to following the bible is praying to God and asking for guidance. He will not let you get it wrong. And moreso, if you do get it wrong, it will work towards your advantage and then he will clear it up. The faith part comes in not only through reasoning but through having faith that he is guiding you in the right direction. That the interpretation you conclude is the one he put there for you. (So long as it corresponds with the rest of His word. You can't pick a part of the bible and interpret it and have it not apply to another part of the bible.)

It sounds more complicated than it is. The 10 commandments are an easy reference sheet to see if you messed up the interpretations.

 

[King Flevance]

You complain that HannibalBarka hasn't followed the teachings of God and yet clearly you know little about science. You don't have to follow the bible to understand that there's virtually no evidence to support it and tons of evidence stacked up against it.

Well, Judgy Judgerson. Where have I said science is false? What part of science did I say is not true? What evidence is stacked against the bible anyways? Something ******** like it was wrote by man?

Look, you clearly don't understand how grammar works so I'll have to explain it to you.

Thanks guy.

Incase you didn't notice you completely deleted the word "never" from your statement.

Well, I'll be darned.

Here is the definition of "never" in case you don't understand its meaning:

1. Not ever; on no occasion; at no time: He had never been there before. You never can be sure.
2. Not at all; in no way; absolutely not: Never fear. That will never do.

Removing "never" completely changes a statement.

Yes it does. Because she messed up on her grammer by using a double negative. So she was saying "I freely decided to get it". I knew this wasn't what she meant. So I corrected it. Make sense yet?

 

[King Flevance]

We speculate because it's tough to do experiments in this area. To mimick this condition, we would need to cause damage to the brain (this is not desirable) - all we have to work with are people who get brain damage and then experience a religious 'conversion'.

The places where the damage occurs tells you what parts of the brain might be involved.

Do you have a link to info on this study?