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Governments and Politics

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by Civleader, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    OOC: Well if we would combine the positions it would be easier to fill all of them, but no when I suggested that I was conniving! Just combine PM and minister of the people. (and throw in minister of minorities) If no candidates present themselves we should also allow those who already hold a governmental position to run.
     
  2. mayor

    mayor Heart & Mind

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    allright. It seems that I should join this ;) anything I desperatly need to know (besides the the rules) before I can start? :)

    @Jehoshua: And don't come saying that I should pledge allegiance to you and your triumvirate because you have only mentioned that like... what??... 10 times?? :lol:
     
  3. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    ooc: Basically the triumvirate has been dominating the government for most of history. Though now I am skeptical about it being more a duo instead of a triumvirate (I could be totally wrong). The only coup attempted (well accept for christos' little thing) failed. I think more recently there was another plot forming, but it also failed (admittedly i wasn't paying attention). I suggest you read all the books players have written, and get associated with the government structure (tambiens' laws thread is a great place to look). Other than that, think of a Name for your family and your character. You start out as an 18yr old Persian citizen. I'd read the last session and everything since than too, just to be up-to-date on current issues.
     
  4. chgrogers

    chgrogers Prince

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    @mayor make friends. We have all seen how effective it is when a couple players work together.

    Find a niche. Filli plays as king well. Jehoshua plays a priest a little too well. Christos plays the rabble rouser. I think one of the earlier comments today is a great idea. If your appointed a position. Take it more seriously. Civ notices this kind of thing. Our Minister of Law has been silent for a while and a few of the new laws are ignored.

    Gather public support, it means much more than you think it does.
     
  5. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    OOC: I suggest that you ask players about the Triumvirate, the current legal situation in Persia, and their opinion on how the King of Kings should handle current events (in addition to what others have said) by PM. This will give you a good sense of the current political climate, and allow you to form opinions.
     
  6. mayor

    mayor Heart & Mind

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    thanks guys, I'll be reading up on the rules and political system tomorrow and probably create a character afterwards (maybe sooner, we'll see ;))

    Is there a list of the books written? a SG I should know about? and were can I find Tambien's law thread.
    (I know I could probably find all of these things if I looked good enough but hé, if someone can tell me I'll have more time for other things ;P)
     
  7. chgrogers

    chgrogers Prince

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    You need to be invited to the Civ and Politics Social group. Ill send you an invite to the business group. Tambien sells them some are out of print. Eventually they will be reprinted by a publishing company.
     
  8. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    OOC: House Tambien mainatins 2 copies of every book it ever sells, one for the family and one to be sold at a later date. We might just sell you one, for a price.
     
  9. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    I would like to propose an amendment to the tax code for the king's consideration.

    Public Interest Deductibility Act

    Any business that is determined by the Minister of Domestic Affairs to be acting in the public interest can receive a minor deduction on their taxes. To receive this benefit a business must apply to the Ministry of Domestic Affairs for a "Public Interest Permit." The minister will determine whether they get a deduction and how much will be deducted. The king naturally has the power to veto any of these actions.
     
  10. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    I give my preliminary support to Hierarch Swimcivs proposal. I would like to add however that the specific qualifiers for "public interest" in regards to businesses should be clarified. I for one would think that public interest in this context should be restricted to such things as educational institutions, charitable agencies and other such services for the wellbeing of the people.

    ~Satrap Jehangir Artaparsi

    -

    OOC: on the triumvirate, it is not a biumvirate yet although one of our number has been absent for the last few days due to the wait between turns and for various RL reasons.
     
  11. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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  12. filli_noctus

    filli_noctus Hmmn

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    I agree with the proposal, in principal. I would set two levels of tax breaks with attached conditions:
    Charity - tax exempt but cannot pay dividends
    Public Interest - pays half taxes and may pay dividends no greater than 10%
    Both types of tax break status must be granted by the minister of domestic affairs or the king and companies which receive either status must provide the king and minister of domestic affairs with their accounts every session.
    The Minister of Domestic Affairs may decide on granting one of these statuses if the business operates in the fields of education, health or urban/rural development. A business operating in any other field may only be granted such status by the King of Kings.

    ooc: Can dividends be paid out this session, Civleader? My company is still paying a 10% dividend.
     
  13. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    I agree with our wise king's modifications to my proposal. I would also like to add that in order to receive a permit from myself, the company must provide a description of how they help the public interest.
     
  14. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    Public Interest Deductibility Act

    Any business that is determined by the Minister of Domestic Affairs to be acting in the public interest can receive a minor deduction on their taxes. To receive this benefit a business must apply to the Ministry of Domestic Affairs for a "Public Interest Permit." The minister will determine whether they get a deduction and how much will be deducted. The king naturally has the power to veto any of these actions.

    Charity - tax exempt but cannot pay dividends
    Public Interest - pays half taxes and may pay dividends no greater than 10%

    Both types of tax break status must be granted by the minister of domestic affairs or the king and companies which receive either status must provide the king and minister of domestic affairs with their accounts every session.
    The Minister of Domestic Affairs may decide on granting one of these statuses if the business operates in the fields of education, health or urban/rural development. A business operating in any other field may only be granted such status by the King of Kings.

    Is this the full bill, Majesty?
     
  15. filli_noctus

    filli_noctus Hmmn

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    Quite so and I declare it enacted.
     
  16. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    Excellent excellent.

    Upon this notice I would like to inquire as to the tax free status of the free Church school in Artaparsa. Now I am uncertain as to the tax status of the Church (I would hope that it, the soul of our nation, is exempt from the indignity of taxes already), but if Church works are required to pay tax currently I would like to request that the King formally declares the school in Artaparsa as tax exempt under this act under the section for charities.
     
  17. filli_noctus

    filli_noctus Hmmn

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    The church is not a business and unless funds generated by this school, or any other venture run by the church, are lining the pockets of private individuals instead of furthering the works of Ahura Mazda I do not consider any such ventures to be seperate from the church.
     
  18. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    Most excellent. It is good that you have clarified the status of the Churches charitable works.

    One other thing that this topic brings to mind, The taxes on land have traditionally been under the auspices of a tax on an individual. However the Church is not an individual and has a special role in persian society and as such under earlier tax laws its lands were not taxed in acknowledgement of its special status. This ensured that the Church was able to run its charitable works and break even with its expenses.

    Now as you are aware tax reform occured quite significantly under your fathers reign, but I do not think he clarified the relation of the Church to land tax. I for one have had some concern on this, considering the Church has balanced expenses to income most exactly in its enterprises, and thus a land tax could potentially disrupt its services to the community. Thus I must ask you, does the Church under current tax law continue to recieve the historical priveleges of exemption from land taxes that were established under Jehashuthra and held continuously by subsequent Kings?

    I of course say this, considering recent irregularities by the tax authorities in regards to new tax law in order to make the situation clear.

    - Atharvan Jehangir
     
  19. filli_noctus

    filli_noctus Hmmn

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    To date the church has been de facto exempt from taxation by virtue of being neither a business nor an individual. Although thus far all taxes have been levied on either individuals or businesses but that does not exclude the possibility of the church being required to contribute to non-targetted forms of taxation, for instance taxes levied directly on land incomes. The same also applies to cities, satrapies and the national government.
    As such I have decided to formally identify certain organisations as tax-exempt Public Bodies.

    Public Bodies Decree
    Public Bodies are non-business organisations that operate under a government mandate. These organisations are exempt from all taxes. The following organisations are Public Bodies:
    National Government
    Ministries
    Satrapies
    Persian Cities
    Armed Forces
    Church of Ahura Mazda

    With the exception of the Church of Ahura Mazda all Public Bodies are created by legislation and come under the de jure authority of a member of the government hierarchy. Additions to the list may only happen at the order of the King of Kings and must fulfill the same criteria.
     
  20. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    I thank His Majesty for his clarifications and for his decree on public bodies and express my gratitude that he has graciously ensured the continued financial independence and stability of the Church.

    OOC: EDIT: Oh and the Church technically does come under the de-jure authority of a member of the government hierarchy. The Ministry of Religion belongs ex officio to the High Priest of the Church of Mazda since Mazdaeism is the state religion. He has the position as interlocuter between the government and the Church and in order to confirm and secure his role in monitoring the well being of the religion in the empire by ensuring this capacity is aided by official secular authoritt. Although of course I must add the Church in its internal affairs is completely independent from the state, Persia does not practice Caesaropapism.
     

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