GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

[ThERat]

I think we should try to get rid of Babs asap, if that's not possible I would abandon that choke city and replace with our own city. Too high a flip risk.
Once we have secured the choke, we can send armies to pillage and raze while holding the line.
We should expand southeast instead with a stable front in the west

 

[vmxa]

The reason I did not disband the Swords was two fold.
1) no units in sight to fill on this end. So I would have to wait until the leader gets deeper into the empire.
2) I think I need the sword army right now to contain the knights. Otherwise that is the army I would like to dump.

 

[vmxa]

How are the resistances coming up? Any news with how close we are to a dominion over the once-frightening babs?

My habit is to strike first. These knights could be dangerous if they are headed towards the silks. Eliminating them now would be good, and for that we need to attack them. You can keep a low profile assault, see how it goes and if it turns out good, involve troops all-out. Else, rinse and repeat next or the other turn.

I am not sure what is meant by the resistance coming up? We have 4 cities in resistance. Three were starving and that is how resistance is being lowered in the main. The 4th Uruk, is not starving and hence the resistance is staying the same. The lone pike is not cracking any resistance so far.

The knights I think I will be able to handle, if they just move on and do not attack emasse anyone town. I have a 5/5 K moved up to the next stopping point and it has two cats. I will have the new K rushed and the three armies that can be used.

That hopefully will be enough to keep them from taking Babylon. They cannot attack it on the IT. If the then move on an bypass it, I will have another army to send in and maybe the Knight will be close enough to defend or strike.

It would come down to how much damage the armies do and sustain. This is iffy stuff and could very ugly with a bad RNG.

 

[vmxa]

I think we should try to get rid of Babs asap, if that's not possible I would abandon that choke city and replace with our own city. Too high a flip risk.
Once we have secured the choke, we can send armies to pillage and raze while holding the line.
We should expand southeast instead with a stable front in the west

Not knowing for sure where the Babs have been coming from, I suspect they are just past the new spanish town I see in this screenie. It looks like all they have to the Eliipi side are gone, either we got them or the Az did.

That could be wrong. I do not have a history of the culture for them to see how much they are getting, but I would say they are down to 1 or 2 towns.

The three armies in the Baghdad (11/12/13th) are yellow and will need to heal and then can go that direction, well two of them anyway. So if the Spanish town is weak and Babs are just past them we will have them in our sights soon. There are 5 or 6 Nippon units heading towards Baghdad, so things could get delayed.

By SW do you mean Madina and Basra, if so I have some settlers coming that way. I would like to fill in that and the land by Baghdad. This could get us up to 66 or so and 2 more armies allowed.

When you say choke town are you speaking of Eliipi? To me that is not a choke town it is an exposed town. We already had a choke there and Eliipi is just dangerous and hard to protect right now.

Anyway I will head for lunch and then jump in after seeign any further feedback. I have had a lot of stops and starts this weekend so not a lot done. She who must be obeyed seems to want to use my time up on weekends, but after lunch I am going to stick to the game.

 

[vmxa]

Whoops forgot the screenie:

Oh I see one of the armies is not yellow.

 

[Northern Pike]

Screenshots only communicate a certain amount, so this may not be relevant to your present situation. But as a general point, it's far worse to lose armies in cities, where the AI will attack them repeatedly, than just to lose cities. It's not worth taking serious chances with our armies to hold Ellipi, New Kadesh, or New Ankuwa, if that's the choice you face. Abandoning those towns would be irritating, but unimportant in the overall strategic context, whereas losing our western armies would be a real problem.

We could, of course, close down the whole western front by lining up two armies on either side of the one-tile lake after abandoning the three advanced towns. I don't know how close a fourth army might be to that front, or whether the situation justifies such a step, but you have that option.

 

[vmxa]

That is the way I see it, losing an army is more detremental at this stage than a town. I don't think I need to abandon more than Eliipi. That allows me to hit the knights now.

Then if they move on to the inner area, I think I can run them down with no loss of any towns. I could send in an additional pike to persuade them to seek the next town. All the while chipping them down.

It is possible to avoid the loss of Eliipi, but I run a huge risk of not being able to contaion those knights. The key to me is we have at lest three large civs past those front town. Az, Rome and Korea and who knows what else.

The big fear is that a lot more units will come pouring in from there. Then I would have to consider the more desparate plan of moving the choke back to a narrow front and using armies to hold them.

Well I will make a chice and get going now. Thanks for the responses. Anyway I will send more to that spot as I am scared that cavs will be coming.

Rome is the most likely to have MT of the three and it is not sending any horse types, so maybe they do not have the resources. Az has not shown any horse types either, but Korea has knights.

 

[vmxa]

We are having thunder and lighting here in Oviedo (read Orlando) and I just got another power outage. Back at it for about the fourth time today. It slowed way down so let me see how far I get this time.
Anyway in case it goes from bad to worse I ill post the news to this point.

IT:
Iroq send in 3 knights and some sloggers to New Adana. Korea lands a knight, LB and 2 pike on Evora. All we have is 2 wounded MDI and a pike and the MDI are not even in the town. Not real sure why we wanted to hold that land as we have no means of stopping ships. I position the 2 galleys so I could drop a kinght on the land next turn, if we still hold it.

Az sends 5 swords towards Babylon. Rome now has 11 sloggers near the choke. The good news is the knights moved near Babylon, but appear to be heading elsewhere. All 9 in one stack now. The bad news is 4 more Korean knights show up to fill the tile just left at New Kadesh. Just as Eliipi looked like it could be saved, more pressure on the rest.

No one attacked. Dutch show up with a lone knight at Chianti.

1440AD:
5/5 kills German LB (1-0) K kills another G-LB (2-0) goes elite.
8th kills Dutch knight and spots 2 dutch horses and an EW with a settler.
Oh my! 8th kills EW 2 slaves now and see another dutch horse. 2 Nips with a settler and a dutch horse with a settler. They are trying to fill all the open space down there. (3-0)

found New Hubishna,

OK this is desperate time. I sell harbor and abandon Eliipi. The weak 2nd kills elite knight going yellow and has no moves, but is in Babylon now. If you note the screen I did earlier on this area you can see the two places where it is nuetral land.

The knights could reach either Ivory Coast or New Ugarit and from there a number of other undefended towns. This is way too risky to me. I am hoping to move up a pike from nearer towns to cover those if we can do it before the are breached.

I wish that New Kadesh was founded on the Ivory or ecen the tile next to that so that we could have a real block with 2 armies and fill those two towns. Eventually killing many units coming that way. I do not understand why Eliipi was captured as it was just way to exposed for the number of units we could muster, maybe I am a whimp. I am reluctant to abandon either of New Kadesh or New Ankuawa as that will make more tiles of free travel and speed units back into the interior.

I will delay a choice on this stuff as long as I can. (4-0)
5/5 kills another knight and is 1/5 now. (5-0)
Ping the 5 sowrds at New Ankuwa but will not attack them.
*K kills another knight (1/5) looked like he was going to die, but came throught (6-0).
6th kills 2 knights (8-0) and knight comes out and kills one and goes elite
(9-0).
7th kill the last 3 and the stack of 9 is gone.

Thisis where I save only seconds before the last outage. So it is a bit better as long as they do not send a lot more right away.

 

[Northern Pike]

That sounds good so far.

Keeping Evora was sensible, since we could have two or even three fishing villages without too much corruption on that island. But apparently we should have arranged a full coastal defense there.

 

[vmxa]

Yes it is not a bad place, but we are so under manned. If we had put three more units and 3 cats. it would have hurt us elsewhere right now. I am going to put up what little I have managed to get done so far. I am keep getting side track.

I should have nothing to get in the way tomorrow.

 

[vmxa]

Switch all the builds that should be pikes back to pikes after cutting the salt.

5/5 kills Iroq knight (1-0), 13th kills Iroq knight (2-0) then kills pike (3-0)
5/5 kill nummerc and gets leader. Create 16th and start to fill it. (4-0).
4th kill Otto-MDI and moves near sizw 1 Frankfurt for a look see (5-0).
9th kill dutch horse with settler and see 11 more dutch horses (6-0). I am sitting on these new slaves to see if I can get them back or not. No need to decide till next turn.

Send out more bombardment from Baghdad but they are poor. 10 units take 4 points of off 5 units.

11th kills two of the Nip-MDI 9/17 no great shakes. (8-0)
Hattusha needs another specialist, until it gets an MP. I have one coming.

IT:
Korean Knight dies at Evora and then LB kills our pike (1-1). They have 4 units left, 2 redlined. We have two damaged MDI's and my idea of landing some help blew up. The two galleys were attacked. A Korean galley we sunk and then a Koprean caravel sinks one of our ships. Another caravel goes redline and then sinks the galley. Don't know if you count them or not.It was 1-2.

1445AD:
Hattusha get MP and I put a citizen back to work.
9th kills dutch horse (1-0)
bombard Nips at Baghdad. Disband the new slaves. I need to get the armies back to take out the horses before they get into our towns. They are at New Hattusha now.
8th kills one (2-0). 1st kills 2 more, one left. I have to pull the workers that would have finished a road as 4 Nip MDI's at next to them and 2 more are right behind them.

5th kills pike (Port or Iroq) (5-0). 13th kills Iroq Knight and MDI (7-0).
4th kills 2 spears at Frankfurt (9-0)
Bad planning on my part as I have to use a k to kill the last horse and it cannot get back to town and is exposed. (10-0).
5/5 kills Sumerian MDI (11-0).
13th kills to Nip MDI and 13th kills one all clear now at Baghdad (14-0).
5/5 MDI kills Az sword (15-0)
2nd kills Roman pike and get a settler and we can keep these slaves. It kills Korean knight (17-0).
6th kills Az sword (18-0)
7th kills the last 3 Korean knights and all 13 are dead now. We have 8 Az swords on hand, but 7 are pinged down 1 or 2 points. (21-0)

5 units (4 Roman) are next to New Kadesh and 7 more close. These at least are slow movers.
5/5 kills Numerc (22-0)
15th kills Nip pike (23-0) and then Nip MDI no lost points (24-0)
Well finally got a bad roll 5/5 knight dies Vs sword. Vet knight kills it and goes elite, so not too bad. (25-1)
4/5 kills horsemen (26-1).

Switch a taxmen or three till we get 1 less turn on Chem or whatever it is we are researching. I forget now.

I may have the count off, best I can recall it is 37-1 + 9-0 + 26-1 = [62-2] close enough anyway. I missed the IT [63-3]

Not sure if I can get in another turn tonight, Not sure how long we will have Evora those caravels came from out of the fog.

 

[vmxa]

I am nearly done with the 5th turn, but it is 1130 here and I am likely to make mistakes if I keep going. Are we doing 5 or 10 turns at this point. Does not matter to me as can get it done tomorrow I suspect, but it is intense with so much at risk.

I have not taken a good look at what I can do with New Kadesh as it has a lot of units around it with only one knight army. I maybe able to give it some support and keep the stack moving. At least they are slow.

I have razed two towns finally. Still many threats, sort of like watch the Deer Huner suicide scene for the first time.

Here is where it is at this point for any that hate to not know what is going on. It is also easier to drop the notes now anyway.

IBT:
3 dutch horse attack the exposed knight, He kills one and goes elite, kills second and is redlined and redlines the third and dies. 4 more land on the tile.
4 Nip MDI are next to New Tarsus, which is undefended right now. (2-1)

Rome now has about 23 units next to New Kadesh, sigh.

1450AD:
MDI kills redline Korean knight (3-1). I switch Evora to a wall and rush it for 16 gold and hope for the best, but it looks bleak and if anything else lands, it will be curtains.

8th kills 3 horses (6-1), 9th kills last horses (8-1).
Hold the phome I raze frankfurt and am 1 tile from those two cat/trebs that were captured. They are uncoverd? Killed two LB (10-1).

10th kills 2 spears at Toledo and 11th kills one and I raze the city and gain 5 slaves and 5 gold. I see what looks like Babs borders, but it maybe an island. There is water tiles from me, but it could be land comes around, but it does not look like it is connected. (13-1)

1st moves to Poinot Noir to defend from the 4 MDI. Not sure if they will attack or move on.
12th kills spanish archer (14-1) [77-4]

Stop the day, at least no more storms, but more all week, ah florida. Should have stayed in sunny Los Angeles.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I wasn't sure wether we would do 5 or 10 and I ended up playing 7, last round. Thought I'd have time for 10 but life came up on me
Don't worry for Rome, at least we aren't in their GA spree; things will pass.

I don't remember if MGL's can rush the palace in C3C. If so, I'd advise putting it up in Washington - or any city that will lower our total corruption after it is built. If we could get 'productive' (under 40-45% corrupt) cities in Arabia, we'd be in for quite an empire. Otherwise, I guess we're good enough to go as is. Just saying.

Florida is certainly one place I wouldn't wish to live in. Canada has snowstorms, but they don't wreck no houses.

 

[Ansar]

I don't remember if MGL's can rush the palace in C3C. If so, I'd advise putting it up in Washington - or any city that will lower our total corruption after it is built. If we could get 'productive' (under 40-45% corrupt) cities in Arabia, we'd be in for quite an empire. Otherwise, I guess we're good enough to go as is. Just saying.

Florida is certainly one place I wouldn't wish to live in. Canada has snowstorms, but they don't wreck no houses.

lurker's comment: MGL can rush the palace, IIRC.

...and Florida is a great place to live, who doesent like 90mph winds?

 

[Greebley]

We do not want to move the capitol.

On this map distance corruption is nearly non-existant vs rank corruption because the map is so large. The value of a move is only going to fix distance corruption.

So the net result will be to switch around the rank corruption which will almost certainly hurt rather than help us. Only if the terrain near our capitol is substantially worse (Tundra capitol for example) will such a switch benefit.

I never move my capitol anyway. The towns near the current capitol are built up while those farther away are not. You now have to get all the new cities next to the new capitol up to snuff. Since rank corruption almost always dominates, it pretty much never worth while.

I lived in LA. There were earthquakes, a major riot, mudslides and forest fires when I was there. Plus the smog can't be good for you. I think you are better off in Florida in terms of general health and well being despite the storms - unless you live right on the coast. I do admit that LA is less wet though.

 

[vmxa]

Here is the save, I hope:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/GR12-AD1460.zip


Edit I never move my capitol either and would leave that for others to decide.

 

[vmxa]

5/5 kills Iroq K (1-0)
13th kills Iroq K (2-0)
4/5 MDI kills Az sword and gets a leader (3-0)
K kills Az spear (4-0) We need 4 more towns for another army so I do the rush/switch for a knight with the leader.
*K kills Az sword (5-0)
knight goes 1/4 doing no damage to a Korean pike heading into empty New Ugarit. Yuk.
7th kills Rome MDI, but drops to 11/18. It kills R-pike (7-0-1)
5/5 kills R-MDI flawlessly and enters New Kadesh (8-0-1)
5/5 kills Num (9-0-1)
1st kills Nip MDI (10-0-1)
9th kills Nop MDI (11-0-1)
Nippur down to 1 resister and starving so I switch it from settler to worker. The worker will be done this turn. Ashur pacifies one resister, 4 left. Uruk pacifies one as well and 5 left. Put all working pop as beakerheads to get back down 1 turn. The beaker count is so close that when the gov puts them back to work we miss the turn, so they have to be put back. May need to add in one extra soon to ensure we do not miss out.

BTW I do not think we want any Bab settlers anyway as we could not risk using them till we find their last towns.

New Kadesh is at risk with 15 Romans MDI+pikes next to it and I think 5 more one tile over. It has a full knight army, 9/18 one and 1 5/5 and 2 bombardment units.

16th still short one unit.

IBT:
nothing unsual, but the 1/4 LB on Evora move out form under the pike, so I will nail it, I hope.

1455AD:
5th kills 2 Iro Knights (2-0)
5/5 kills Iroq pike and K kills MDI and joins the 16th now filled. (4-0)
K kills Nip MDI (5-0)
1st kills Nip MDI (6-0)
9th kills Nip MDI (7-0)

Cut some roads as it was too easy for them to get units to our front using neutral tiles.

MDI kills LB on Evora (8-0). If we can get a galley out after the CH in Karatepe and send over some help before moe units land..... We may want to drop a few workers to block landings if that is allowed. I know Vikes are somewhere though. So if anyone want to cancel that you have time to switch off of a galley.

12th kills Spanish spear near Madrid. 10th and 12th there but yellow. May be able to take Madrid as they seem to only have spears. I suspect it may be their last town, but not sure. (9-0)

5/5 kills Az spear (10-0) K kills Az sword (11-0)
14th kills R-MDI (12-0)

Found New Emar

6th kills Az sword, *K kills one too (14-0)
Send MDI from Nippur to kill Az spear and it barely does 1/4 (15-0)
2nd kill R-pike (16-0)
K kills Korean pike goes 1/4 (17-0)[105-4]

New Kadesh is still rough and the land behind is very exposed if any breakout. Rome has

three stacks 9 MDI 3 Pikes, 6 MDI 1 Pike, 1 of each and Az has 5 swords.

Basically we have nothing behind that, except the two above mention units both redlined.

IBT:

Sorry I seemed has hazed out on the it and only note an Az spear lands next to Nippur and

it is empty, as is most of the towns around there. Anyway no attacks.

1460AD:
Move redline MDI back into Nippur and hope the spear like the looks of one of the empty towns better. Worse a Roman caravel is off the coast of Nippur. I would be pulling out my hair, but it is mostly gone anyway.

Another bad move, hope it does not hurt. I attacked a pike that was damaged on a mountain, not forted with the 4th and it went down to last 2 HP beofre killing it. covered with a pike. (1-0)
15th kills Nip pike+settler and a German pair and is sitting on 4 slaves, but they are a long way from home and right next to those same cats we lost (3-0)
Settler pairs are all around. May wish to disband slaves and kill more settlers or drag them with you.

Redlined knight goes into New Alaca near the afore mentioned Az spear.

10th kills 2 spears in Madrid, 12th kill spear+settler next to it and then kill last spear in Madrid. 35 gold 5 slave, plus the 2 for 7 total. Spain is gone and now joins Russia. (7-0)

K kills dutch horse (8-0)
8th kills 2 dutch knights and a horse (11-0)
Two knights each kill a dutch horse (13-0)

Ok it loks like I need to take abreak as I nearly had a big booboo. The 9th killed last dutch horse ad went redline. I could have sworn it was at full health, but it must not have been. (14-0)
1st kills 2 nip MDI. I have been trying to clear that area for the next town and settlers are waiting, but lots of Japanese and now Dutch units are coming from south of it. (16-0)

5/5 kills Germany LB (17-0)
*MDI kills Az sword (18-0)

Found a knight to send towards Nipur, in New Alaca now. Guess I am losing it as I just noticed 3 slaves were right next to the spear, so I moved them.

[123-4]

 

[vmxa]

Looks like I managed to whimp out after 7 turns, but I am in fog and will make too many mistakes if I press on right now. I would suspect it is time to go 5 or whatever one can handle anyway, but that is not my call.

Here is an attempt to get some info down for the next set in one place.

The tech rate keeps flipping back to the previous count as the scientist are reverting back to normal task. So you may want to try to find 2 from elsewhere or risk missing the breakthrough by a few beakers.

Settlers are in front lines on the NW and SE areas, but I had not sent them out as it has been to hard to get them escorted. The NE seems to be slowing down though and the 16th could do it and one of the other armies take its place. Up till now there have been knights getting just past New Adana and I used everything to clean up.

Evora will need help to deal with any further landings or it is a danger. I started a galley to give someone a shot to reenforce it, if that seems wise.

Nippur and surrounding towns are starting to see landings. So far only single units, but Rome has a caravel on scene. Don't know if it is coming or going, empty or loaded. If the spear does not attack the MDI and kill it we will have units to deal with the landings as the NDI and a knight are redlined and fresh K is now there.

Maybe be worth short rushing to get a treb or a pike or something else up there.

Last and worse is New Kadesh area. I took no action there other than the bombardment. So next player can have the option of bugging out, attacking or defending. A number of knights are heading that way, but the pipeline is long and not fat.

The problem now is 10 Az units in our land and 2 more next to it. Rome has stacks of 11/7/1/2. All pikes or MDI.

Korea has not sent any more knights after the first 13. It may be best to entice rome to keep heading back to empty places and kill off units as they move.

I did not do any MM of towns, but most have not chanced and have all tiles in use anyway. Workers have not been given real handling either, just trying to keep them busy and safe.

 

[Northern Pike]

A wild round. I like your Deer Hunter simile.

Good work disposing of the Spanish.

BTW I do not think we want any Bab settlers anyway as we could not risk using them till we find their last towns.

Admirable caution, but I don't think we need to worry about this. One enemy citizen in a town under no other flip risk doesn't mean much in Conquests. Vanilla was worse.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

How many down now? America, Spain, Arabia, soon Babylon

This will be great for space and the frontline definition: E and W now. Give or take a few landings.

I wonder whose are the dark blue borders SW of spain. Not sure I actually want to know, though.