Guantanamo inmates and the EU

[RedRalph]

Thats the point. They are neither innocent nor harmless. I think people are realizing that now.

then why have they been released?

 

[MobBoss]

then why have they been released?

I believe we are talking about the last couple hundred that have not been released....

 

[RedRalph]

I believe we are talking about the last couple hundred that have not been released....

but they are still going to be tried, arent they?

 

[MobBoss]

but they are still going to be tried, arent they?

Probably in a courts martial....not a regular criminal trial. And they most assuredly have not been released yet.

In fact, I got word over the weekend, they are looking for volunteer military paralegals for the expected duty as court reporters.

 

[RedRalph]

Probably in a courts martial....not a regular criminal trial. And they most assuredly have not been released yet.

In fact, I got word over the weekend, they are looking for volunteer military paralegals for the expected duty as court reporters.

one way or another - anyone who gets released will have been proven to be innocent by the US, yeah?

 

[MobBoss]

one way or another - anyone who gets released will have been proven to be innocent by the US, yeah?

Or that while there was sufficient evidence to detain them, there may not be sufficient evidence to convict them. OR that we simply cant find a host nation to receive them. Or that while they may not be innocent, their rights have been violated to the point where they should be released. Or a wide variety of other results as well.

Your statement is a tad simple in regards to the overall situation at hand.

 

[RedRalph]

Or that while there was sufficient evidence to detain them, there may not be sufficient evidence to convict them. OR that we simply cant find a host nation to receive them. Or that while they may not be innocent, their rights have been violated to the point where they should be released. Or a wide variety of other results as well.

Your statement is a tad simple in regards to the overall situation at hand.

Surely you have faith in the US govt's ability to protect you?

 

[MobBoss]

Surely you have faith in the US govt's ability to protect you?

Do you think thats the issue?

 

[RedRalph]

Do you think thats the issue?

Trust in your government, dood. They're America.

 

[MobBoss]

Trust in your government, dood. They're America.

Not an answer to my question, dood.

 

[El_Machinae]

one way or another - anyone who gets released will have been proven to be innocent by the US, yeah?

Courts and the law only very rarely "prove" someone to be innocent. Usually cases just fail to prove guilt.

 

[Labtec600]

one way or another - anyone who gets released will have been proven to be innocent by the US, yeah?

No.

OJ was released and he sure as hell wasnt innocent. The courts look at all the evidence and try to convince a layman jurror that the person is guilty (prosecutor) or there is doubt (defense).

Not sure if there will or will not be a jury at these trials, may just be a judge. But just because one is released DOES NOT mean they're innocent.

 

[MobBoss]

No.

OJ was released and he sure as hell wasnt innocent. The courts look at all the evidence and try to convince a layman jurror that the person is guilty (prosecutor) or there is doubt (defense).

Not sure if there will or will not be a jury at these trials, may just be a judge. But just because one is released DOES NOT mean they're innocent.

Very good example there Labtec. Nicely done.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Your statement is a tad simple in regards to the overall situation at hand.

Ah, sweet irony strikes yet again. Nearly a thousand innocent victims have already been released with hundreds more to soon be released. So far, they have found only one of them guilty of any crimes whatsoever, and one was aquitted, with only 9 more slated to stand trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_military_commission

And the one who was "convicted"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks

Hicks's legal team attributed his acceptance of the plea bargain to his "desperation for release from Guantanamo".

But according to you:

Thats the point. They are neither innocent nor harmless. I think people are realizing that now.

No, I don't think that's quite what virtually all rational adults have realized for years now. Try again.

 

[Labtec600]

Ah, sweet irony strikes yet again. Nearly a thousand innocent victims have already been released with hundreds more to soon be released. So far, they have found only one of them guilty of any crimes whatsoever, and one was aquitted, with only 9 more slated to stand trial.

Or maybe there is not intelligence to gaine from the onese they released.

 

[MobBoss]

Ah, sweet irony strikes yet again. Nearly a thousand innocent victims have already been released with hundreds more to soon be released. So far, they have found only one of them guilty of any crimes whatsoever, and one was aquitted, with only 9 more slated to stand trial.

Your numbers are off a bit. But dont let that stop ya.

Plus, as I said, once a new venue in the US can be agreed upon, odds are that the remaining detainees are going to face immediate Art 5 hearings to determine their status, followed up most likely by courts martial.

No, I don't think that's quite what virtually all rational adults have realized for years now. Try again.

Odd. What you offer is not a refutation of my earlier point to RRW at all. Hmm.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Your numbers are off a bit. But dont let that stop ya..

Since when did you ever care about facts? Based on your posts, I don't think you even know what the word means.

 

[RedRalph]

Very good example there Labtec. Nicely done.

so you dont have faith in the US justice system, dood?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thats the point. They are neither innocent nor harmless. I think people are realizing that now.

All of them?

What's the big difference between releasing suspected terrorist who are not found guilty by court of law, and releasing suspected murderers who are not found guilty by a court of law. This begs the question: why have a court of law at all? Why not treat every suspected criminal like the suspected terrorists in Gitmo?

Are you in favour of changing the US Law System this way?

 

[Agent327]

I keep hearing the US wants Europe to accept some of the inmates currently held at Guantanamo.

Can somebody tell me why? I mean, the US locked them there, kept them there and now you can't place few hundred people somewhere? Is the US too crowded or something? Why should Europe take care of US ex-prisoners who might very well be dangerous jihadists, I don't get it at all.

Anyone?

First, Guantanamo inmates (according to the previous administration's reasoning) are in US custody, but - for reasons unclear - not subject to US laws concerning suspects apprehended. As they are held inside a US military base, one might assume they are POWs and should be tried and treated accordingly.

Second, not all Guantanamo inmates can be classified as POWs; several have simply been abducted, held in other countries and/or transported through other countries (some of which were EU member states).

Third, rule of law - which was more or less suspended regarding said inmates (or at least restricted for not entirely clear reasons, legally speaking) - should now be re-applied to all said inmates, according to statements by the new president of the US.

As concerns the (re-)admission of inmates to EU nations: it is not entirely clear on which grounds persons apprehended by US agencies should be admitted to EU nations - unless they are not guilty of suspected crimes and are residents of any such nation.

As a sidenote: a practical (not legal) problem is ofcourse that the mere suspicion of (terrorist or other) crimes makes admission to any EU nation rather difficult, even if this is the proper way of treatment in the view of any absence of evidence.