[RD] Hamas/Israeli War News One: Hostages and Invasion

[Yeekim]

Those stayed, for a number of reasons, and weren't kicked out after the nakba. You can say it was at least less monstrous from Israel to not run pogroms against them (others in the region have), but it's too little. Israel also refuses the right of the ethnically same group that was kicked out in the nakba, to return.

Indeed.
I would also add that willingness to accept Israel as a legitimate entity and Israeli citizenship by extension was/is a major factor there.

 

[Gorbles]

I am not.

The post in question concluded that treatment of Palestinians as "undesirable subhumans" is based on their race and religion.

Existence of significant Israeli Arab minority, sharing both race and religion with Palestinians, demonstrates this conclusion to be erroneous.

So after reading NinjaCow's post thoroughly and in good faith, you've arrived at the conclusion that Israeli Arabs aren't mistreated, when the post explicitly says otherwise?

 

[aelf]

I'm at least as familiar with the situation in the West Bank as most posters in this thread. The Israeli government knows exactly what it is doing in trying to destroy any remaining chance there would be a legitimate and popular secular party to assume administration of a Palestinian state. Given Fatah's degeneration into kleptocrats (a degeneration helped along by the USA it must be said), it is no surprise why Hamas would be gaining sympathizers and support from West Bank Palestinians. It also raises the concern that this sympathy or support extends to support of Hamas' desire to ethnically cleanse the region of Jews.

Your recent posts here have been rather slippery, but "no surprise why Hamas would be gaining sympathizers and support" is all that people have been saying. And your "concern" is noted, and while everyone else is also concerned in theory, the reality is that's not happening anytime soon and therefore more of a thought exercise.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Media research shows BBC is very far from ‘biased against Israel’

Another key finding from these studies was that Israeli casualties were given proportionally more coverage than Palestinian ones, and the language used to describe Israeli deaths was markedly different. Words such as “atrocity”, “murder”, “lynch-mob” and “barbarically killed” were used by journalists to describe the deaths of Israeli soldiers, but not those of Palestinians.

Such patterns are also evident in current reporting. We examined four weeks (7 October to 4 November) of BBC One daytime coverage of the 2023 Gaza war using the database TV Eyes to identify which terms were used by journalists themselves (not in direct or reported statements) to describe Israeli and Palestinian deaths.

We found that “murder”, “murderous”, “mass murder”, “brutal murder” and “merciless murder” were used a total of 52 times by journalists to refer to Israelis’ deaths but never in relation to Palestinian deaths. The same pattern could been seen in relation to “massacre”, “brutal massacre” and “horrific massacre” (35 times for Israeli deaths, not once for Palestinian deaths); “atrocity”, “horrific atrocity” and “appalling atrocity” (22 times for Israeli deaths, once for Palestinian deaths); and “slaughter” (five times for Israeli deaths, not once for Palestinian deaths).

 

[bernie14]

Your recent posts here have been rather slippery, but "no surprise why Hamas would be gaining sympathizers and support" is all that people have been saying. And your "concern" is noted, and while everyone else is also concerned in theory, the reality is that's not happening anytime soon and therefore more of a thought exercise.

Oct 7 was not a thought exercise

 

[Kyriakos]

Oct 7 was not a thought exercise

October 7 killed 1/30 of people the israelis killed, supposedly in retaliation to how horrible Oct 7 was.
If x is a terrible crime, what does that make 30x?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Oct 7 was not a thought exercise

But you sure like to treat the resulting massacre by the Israeli's as one

 

[bernie14]

October 7 killed 1/30 of people the israelis killed, supposedly in retaliation to how horrible Oct 7 was.
If x is a terrible crime, what does that make 30x?

Well, I think the killing of innocents would be/have been avoided if hostages, terrorists proper and Hamas leadership were just given over .

 

[Gorbles]

Well, I think the killing of innocents would be/have been avoided if hostages, terrorists proper and Hamas leadership were just given over .

Yes, this is famously why no Palestinians died before 7th of October, at Israel's hands.

It appears you don't know a lot about the region or its conflict. Is there somewhere you'd like to start?

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, I think the killing of innocents would be/have been avoided if hostages, terrorists proper and Hamas leadership were just given over .

So if someone threatens the US with firing a nuke at it unless "the people" hand over 100 specific politicians/oligarchs/etc, it is on the US people if they get nuked? How would the average USian go about capturing those?

 

[bernie14]

So if someone threatens the US with firing a nuke at it unless "the people" hand over 100 specific politicians/oligarchs/etc, it is on the US people if they get nuked? How would the average USian go about capturing those?

Can't speak for "the people". But I doubt they would agree to hand over their elected officials...

 

[Kyriakos]

Can't speak for "the people". But I doubt they would agree to hand over their elected officials...

Can't you see that by this logic you should be perfectly ok with some million USians dying just because some loon on the other side tied that to failure to do something impossible for them?
One can go a step further, and say that Israel never expected its ridiculous ultimatum to be accepted <=> that it wasn't accepted, is neither the reason nor an excuse for what Israel is doing.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't support Hamas. You do and we wonder why

Supporting the IDF is worse than supporting Hamas

 

[Kyriakos]

It's wrong to frame it this way - and it is exactly what fascists in Israel want you to do. I am sure that in the US/EU and similar, 99% of those who are currently against Israel do NOT support hamas. Hamas is a jihadist terror group, nothing more and nothing less. It doesn't excuse Israel now having turned to ww2 Germany.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Temporary closed.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Reopened again.

 

[Broken_Erika]

US and EU condemn 'inflammatory' Gaza resettlement call​

Away from Lebanon, some of Israel's allies have denounced a series of recent comments by Israeli cabinet ministers calling for the resettlement of Palestinians outside of Gaza.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a member of the hard-right Religious Zionism party, has called for almost the entire Palestinian population of Gaza to leave the strip through "emigration",making way for Israeli settlers.

Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's national security minister from the far-right Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party, echoed his thoughts by claiming Israel should be "encouraging the residents of Gaza to emigrate".

The official Israeli government stance is that Gazans will be able to return to their homes after the war.

In response, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said the pair were "slandering the Palestinian population".

"Forced displacements are strictly prohibited as a grave violation of [international humanitarian law] and words matter," the diplomat writes on social media.

Earlier a US official described the statements as "inflammatory and irresponsible".

State department spokesman Matthew Miller said: "Gaza is Palestinian land and will remain Palestinian land, with Hamas no longer in control of its future and with no terror groups able to threaten Israel."

Ben-Gvir hit back at the US, saying: "Really appreciate the United States of America but with all due respect we are not another star on the American flag."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67859135?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

 

[pigswill]

I suspect that there are some far-right politicians in Israel who regard the US of A as a useful but occasionally annoying subordinate.

 

[NinjaCow64]

You are free to quote relevant parts of that post explaining (or otherwise enlighten me) on how "Arab-Israelis" and "Palestinians" are separated based on race and religion.

This is nitpicking.

Wow! You got me! Israel puts people into a clear hierarchy based on race, religion and arbitrary factors such as “what side of a line was this Arab born on?”.

This additional classification doesn’t disprove my hypothesis of Israel being an apartheid state. There is a great deal of racism thrown towards Arab Israelis from both the general Israeli public and also state sanctioned harassment. This and Israel has systematically made it more and more difficult for non-citizen Palestinians to obtain citizenship (e.g through marriage or family reunification) because they consider Palestinians a demographic threat.

 

[NinjaCow64]

I suspect that there are some far-right politicians in Israel who regard the US of A as a useful but occasionally annoying subordinate.

We really shouldn’t mischaracterise the US-Israeli relationship. The United States is the dominant one here. If Biden wanted he could force Israel to a ceasefire by stopping arm sales, which he could do without congressional approval IIRC.

Israeli politicians make horrific statements such as these because they think they can get away with it and so far they have been proven right.