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Historical European Regions: What are they now?

Discussion in 'World History' started by bob bobato, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Chieftain

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    I'd say that the Prussians still exist in some ways. Nowadays, people living in Brandenburg and Berlin are refered to as Prussians. It's a bit similar like calling a New Yorker a Yankee, I suppose. Those Prussians are still thought to be strict and sort of harsh. Of course, often this is used as a joke, but I wouldn't call that plain invention, though. Of course, 'Prussians' won't found their own country independent from Germany, but they certainly have their own traditions and style. As well as Bavarians and Saxons and 'fishheads' (northern Germans ;)) and other Germans have. Although there is no officially recognized german people called Prussians, I suppose.

    On the other side, what you might consider Prussia, might lead you to false conclusions. Sure, Prussia was quite large for a time, but that does not mean that all the land it controlled, were traditionally prussian. For example, those western german regions were more occupied then really prussian. In the east, there were Silesians. That's a group of Germans that's almost extinct nowadays. Furthermore most Germans left what is nowadays Poland after WW2 and the region has been re-inhabited by Poles. That's why 'Prussia' is nowadays considered to be Berlin and Brandenburg. So that's what happened to Prussians, I'd say.
     
  2. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    Technically speaking, "Prussia" is entirely confined to modern-day Poland.
    Spoiler :

    Prussia only became attached to Germany because of a dynastic union between the Elector of Brandenburg and the Duchy of Prussia. Frederick II decided to call himself "King of Prussia" later in his rule because he did not want to be associated with the Habsburgs (being that the Margrave of Brandenburg held a vote in the election for Holy Roman Emperor).

    Now, the Kingdom of Prussia managed to annex most of northern Germany after the Napoleonic Wars and the German Civil War, but these states are not technically "Prussia." When speaking in a humorous or historical context, people might refer to themselves as Prussians, but I don't know anybody in Germany who in a serious non-monarchist context will speak of a still-existent "Prussia."
     
  3. cool3a2

    cool3a2 Chieftain

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    That's what I said. Prussia doesn't exist, but Prussians (the people) can be considered existant, although they are not officially recognized as such.
     
  4. Dachs

    Dachs Girlfriend

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    Bavarians consider everybody not from southern Bavaria to be a Prussian :p
     
  5. LightSpectra

    LightSpectra me autem minui

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    Bavaria should've united with Austria before they were bullied into joining the German Empire. Dangit, Ludwig.
     
  6. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

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    The original Prussians, the Baltic people, certainly don't exist now.
     
  7. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    The northern half of East Prussia, Kaliningrad Oblast, is part of Russia. It's population now is mostly Russian, although its bordered by Poland, Lithuania and the Baltic. The rest of Prussia east of the Oder-Neisse line is part of Poland.
     
  8. Kosez

    Kosez Sitting Wool

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    People that live in Dalmatia still call themselves ˝Dalmatinci˝ (don't want to name them Dalmatians because of obvious reasons). And they have very strong and distinct identity. Being born in Dalmatia instead of mainland Croatia is no joke at all.

    In case of Bourgogne and Mecklenburg Vorpommern I don't see why they wouldn't think of themselves as Burgundians or Pomeranians.

    I was in Nice for New Year holidays. French is official language in Nice for only 150 years or so. Before it was Italian and before that Latin. But ordinary people spoke Nissart, which is, by my opinion, somewhere between French and Italian and still alive today.

    It's similar in Slovenia and Croatia. We have dialects that consist of whole bunch of different words and grammatical rules and have developed in centuries.

    Unfortunately old dialects (sometimes they would deserve a title of language) are slowly dying out. I guess. Maybe the same process is happening with regional cultures too.

    " align="" border="0" />
    I believe this is example of Nissart. Taken in Vieux Nice.
     
  9. Sofista

    Sofista card-carrying

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    Looks more like ancient Italian to me. Compare with the modern phrasing, "qui si mangia bene".
     
  10. Kosez

    Kosez Sitting Wool

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    It's in Nissart. But it well might be similar to old Italian. In fact I would be surprised if it wasn't given the fact that Nice was practically Italian for a good portion of it's history (by Italian I mean it was mostly under Italian dominance and not French).
     
  11. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I'm Silesian, born and raised!

    In Poland we have 3 voivodships (provinces) in the region, Silesian, Lower Silesian, and Opole.

    If you ask a random person on the street who they are, you'll likely hear "Polish", but there is a distinctive Silesian culture in the region, with its own food, language (60,000 speakers), and even a small independence movement. (I don't think they are very active)

    When I was growing up everyone was "Polish" though. I think elements of this culture can be mostly seen in the countryside, although that is just a guess.
     
  12. Arwon

    Arwon Show me your moves

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    The historical Kingdom of Navarra was a Basque-speaking entity, but today what's called Navarra is emphatically not the Basque Country, it is distinct and different from it. Uniquely among the regional identities in Francoist Spain, it got special autonomous arrangements because it supported Franco - it kept collecting its own taxes and its football team got to keep a non-Castillian name.

    Today, Navarra is an autonomous community of Spain consisting of one province, with the capital at Pamplona. Basque is an official language in the part which speaks Basque, but Castillian the main spoken language.
     
  13. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    Czech republic is made up of two parts. Bohemia and Moravia. Both Bohemians and Moravians are nearly identical cultures and today call themselves Czechs.

    Silesia still exists. I am Silesian myself.

    Pomerania still exists, except the Ruskies moved all the Germans living in the cities to East Germany. The Pomeranian country side has and is still today populated by poles, as is the cities today.

    Grenada was a muslim dynasty in Spain. It kinda ended when Spain conquered it and converted everyone to catholics.

    Navarre is a region of the Basque land. Basques are still very much present.

    Prussia never existed imo culturally or in terms of regions. The former Prussian areas (namely Kalingrad, Klaipeda) now belong to Russia and Lithuania respectively. The "Prussians" were German immigrants from Saxony mostly. Following WWII, the Ruskies moved all the Germans in Pomerania, Danzig, Konigsberg, Klaipeda, etc. to East Germany.

    Burgundy and Aquitania still exist as regions in regional identities within France, like Britons, Normandians, and espiecially Occitania who shares more with Catalonia than France.

    Dalmatia is still very present to, it is a regional identity of Croatia as is Slavonians.
     
  14. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    Its worthy to note that in Czech language the terms "Czech(s)" and "Bohemian(s)" are same.
     
  15. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Chieftain

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    It should also note that we call you Czechs nowadays because it's the Polish word for Bohemians. :p
     
  16. Squonk

    Squonk Chieftain

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    When it comes to Silesia:

    Today, Silesia is divided between Czech Republic and Poland. Some claim there's a small part left in Germany, but that's not quite true: a small bit around Gorlitz was part of Silesian Province in Prussia, but it's historical Lausitz. In Poland, Silesia is divided between 5 voivodships, 3 of them are considered silesian. Lubusz (Lebus) voivodship, itself being a restoration of historical region of Lebusland (Ziemia Lubuska), has a big chunk of NW Lower Silesia. A small bit of Lower Silesia remains in Major Poland voivodship: you see, just before ww1, only tiny bits of Lower Silesia were still polish-speaking. A couple of frontier villages were given to Poland as, as they were too far from (Upper) Silesian voivodship, they were given to Major Poland and remained in it.

    Lower Silesian voivodship covers entire Lower Silesia, apart from the part assigned to Lebus voivodship, the couple of villages in Major Poland voivodship and the city of Brzeg, which is in Opole voivodship. The population is almost completely made of people who arrived here after ww2. There are some remains of polish lower-silesian dialect along the borders with Major Poland and Upper Silesia.

    Opole voivodship consists of Brzeg city as well as (roughly) these parts of Upper Silesia that were part of Germany before ww2 (apart from the industrial cities and Gliwice rural county, which are in (Upper) Silesian voivodship. The region itself was created due to demands of the german minority.

    (Upper) Silesian voivodship consists of the part of Silesia that belonged to Poland before ww2, as well as aforementioned Gliwice, Bytom and Zabrze out of formerly german part. But only 1/2 of its territory is undoubtly Silesian. The rest is generally historical Minor Poland, although it's not as clear as it may seem, because some of these regions belonged to Silesia before, then returned to (Minor) Poland, but continued to be called Silesian sometimes etc.

    Unlike Lower Silesia, Upper Silesia is inhabited by half or so by autochtones. They all speak polish (silesian dialect), have polish surnames etc, but some consider themselves Poles, some Germans, and some simply Silesians. Lately there were attempts to create a silesian language out of polish silesian dialect. These attempts nowdays occur, however, almost entirely in formerly prussian part of Silesia, while formerly austrian part is completely polish.

    In Czech Republic, there's Silesian-Moravian region. There are three distinct silesian regions in it. One is Cieszyn Silesia. It contains a big polish minority (used to be a majority a century ago), and, because of the industrial region, many newcomers.
    Opawa Silesia contains many newcomers due to expulsion of Germans. There are some people declaring Silesian nationality there. The same goes for Hulczynsko, which is part of prussian Silesia assigned to Czechs.

    the land between Opawa Silesia and Cieszyn Silesia is not considered historical Silesia, but originally it was, and people still speak silesian "laski" dialect, which is considered to be something between polish and czech.

    A small part of Silesia (Czadca region) is located in Slovakia.
     
  17. Dachs

    Dachs Girlfriend

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    The only autochthonous people in Europe are the Athenians :mischief:
     
  18. Squonk

    Squonk Chieftain

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    no, they are a mixture of Albanians, Turks, and Slavs (Macedonians) :yup:
     
  19. RedRalph

    RedRalph Chieftain

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    and Russia.
     
  20. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    The northern tip of the red area is Klaipeda (formerly Memel), so Lithuania also has a little bit of Prussia.
     

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