History questions not worth their own thread IV

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As for why the Democratic-Republicans are popular. First, the Federalists, while right in some areas, were clearly wrong in others, which made them contrary to popular sentiment in our country. This meant they lost quickly and didn't do much that could be praised.
This is sort of a bizarre claim to make. What made the Federalists wrong was more a question of sentiment than policy. They were associated - and frequently associated themselves - with Roman boni or the British Lords. They appeared to be less stridently democratic-acting than the Republicans did. But as far as what each group actually did, one cannot say that the Republicans were any more meaningfully 'democratic' than were the Federalists. Democracy at that point was an issue of state and local government anyway, and on that level Federalists did as much as Republicans to extend the franchise and ensure the proper working of the electorate. I suppose if one had to point to something, one might argue that Hamilton's efforts to seize control of the Additional Army might be seen as a threat of Caesarism, but the Additional Army was a paper army anyway and nothing Hamilton would try to do could change that: he was not a serious threat to the republic.

What made the Republicans ultimately victorious was not a question of Federalist popularity or lack thereof, either. Look at the general reaction to the Quasi War and the XYZ Affair in American papers and letters: people were outraged, the French-boot-licking Republicans were mercilessly mocked, and His Rotundity was catapulted into the unlikely position of being one of the most popular men in the country, alongside the likes of Captain Truxtun. The Alien and Sedition Acts were a reflection of what the general politically oriented public supported at the time - the vituperations of Republican newspapermen and politicians notwithstanding. (Some of those laws are still on the books!)

What torpedoed the Federalists in 1800 was a combination of infighting among the party (insofar as it can even be called a party) between Hamilton and more or less everybody else, the decidedly non-democratic political machinations of Aaron Burr in New York, and the three-fifths clause in the Constitution that gave the Republican-voting southern states juuuust enough electoral votes to put the issue in doubt. That last one especially is the kicker: had the three-fifths clause, one of the most blatant antidemocratic stipulations in the American Constitution, not existed, the Republicans would not have had enough votes in the Electoral College to prevent Adams' reelection. The so-called "Revolution of 1800" occurred because of the institution of slavery.
LouisXXIV said:
Second, the Republicans mitigated the harshness of their stances. By the late Madison administration and, certainly by the Monroe administration, they brought prosperity to the country and adopted the better policies of the Federalists without the harshness and while carefully preserving a balance between state and federal that was acceptable to the electorate at the time. If the complaint about the administration is confined to the Jefferson and Madison administrations, you at least have the Louisiana Purchase.
A Louisiana Purchase that, as I noted, was never originally intended to have the effects it did by anyone, least of all the Republicans themselves, and which, if viewed in the context of the times, chiefly amounted to the Republicans giving Napoleon a colossal amount of cash in violation of their own ostensible interpretation of the Constitution in order to secure a bunch of empty territory that Napoleon didn't have any meaningful control over anyway.
Or the American Alamo.
Texan.
 
A Louisiana Purchase that, as I noted, was never originally intended to have the effects it did by anyone, least of all the Republicans themselves, and which, if viewed in the context of the times, chiefly amounted to the Republicans giving Napoleon a colossal amount of cash in violation of their own ostensible interpretation of the Constitution in order to secure a bunch of empty territory that Napoleon didn't have any meaningful control over anyway.
From what I always understood, the Jefferson wanted to buy New Orleans, but the French insisted on selling the whole thing and basically the deal was too good to refuse. Is any of that true?
 
A Louisiana Purchase that, as I noted, was never originally intended to have the effects it did by anyone, least of all the Republicans themselves, and which, if viewed in the context of the times, chiefly amounted to the Republicans giving Napoleon a colossal amount of cash

Was it a colossal amount of cash? Didn't France extract from Haiti even more that it got from the Louisiana deal? And if it was a colossal amount how did the federal government of the USA manage to finance it? How much was it in terms of yearly revenues?
I'm asking because I have the impression that the US kept having to print money to finance its 19th century wars, it's odd that a president would feel free to spent a large sum.
 
I don't celebrate any national holidays or saints' days and living in Britain, there's more than enough of them! I don't even know on which days James VI succeeded to the English throne, the Act of Union was passed or so on.
You mean Arakhor doesn't know an odd piece of trivia about British monarchs!
Scandalous I say!
However, Cromwell is most pleased.
220px-Oliver_Cromwell_by_Samuel_Cooper.jpg
 
Was it a colossal amount of cash? Didn't France extract from Haiti even more that it got from the Louisiana deal? And if it was a colossal amount how did the federal government of the USA manage to finance it? How much was it in terms of yearly revenues?
I'm asking because I have the impression that the US kept having to print money to finance its 19th century wars, it's odd that a president would feel free to spent a large sum.

It was a total sum (counting the cancellation of French debts) of $15 million, which works out to all of 3 cents per acre. As far as I know, there was significant domestic opposition to it, but none of that was along the lines of cost: it's hard to tell how great the US GDP was at the time, but Napoleon was able to blow the entire sum on his planned invasion of England, despite not actually carrying this out.
 
You mean Arakhor doesn't know an odd piece of trivia about British monarchs! Scandalous I say!

James I of Scotland was assassinated in a sewer tunnel, which it is said had been blocked off just days to stop tennis balls getting lost. James IV was the last British monarch to die in battle at the disastrous Battle of Flodden. His son, James V, thought his dynasty was over when he lay dying, knowing that his only legitimate heir was his six-day-old daughter. His grandson, James VI & I, was said to have joined his friend in bed on his wedding night. His granddaughter was the Electress Sophia, from whom all future British monarchs trace their descent.

Does that make it up to you? :lol:
 
Something interesting I noticed while browsing quickly through Napoleon's wiki article was that after Waterloo, Napoleon considered escaping to the United States before accepting exile to St. Helens. How much truth is in that, and would he have had any intentions or goals in the new world had he gone there?
 
From what I always understood, the Jefferson wanted to buy New Orleans, but the French insisted on selling the whole thing and basically the deal was too good to refuse. Is any of that true?
More or less. The emissaries were instructed to seek the purchase of New Orleans and Spanish Florida, with the former being the overwhelming priority. At the greatest extremity, Monroe was permitted to offer $10 million for both New Orleans and Florida, but was authorized to spend about $9 million for New Orleans alone if he could not obtain Florida. Napoleon's ultimate offer was an embarrassment to the utterly unprepared American delegation, which ended up seizing the day and signing the treaty sub spe rati in the hopes that the Senate would ratify it.
Was it a colossal amount of cash? Didn't France extract from Haiti even more that it got from the Louisiana deal? And if it was a colossal amount how did the federal government of the USA manage to finance it? How much was it in terms of yearly revenues?
I'm asking because I have the impression that the US kept having to print money to finance its 19th century wars, it's odd that a president would feel free to spent a large sum.
"Colossal" would be a bit of an overstatement, to be fair. The point is really that the Americans gave Napoleon any money at all. Remember, the French empire in the west, during the period of the Treaty of Amiens, existed almost wholly at the sufferance of the American authorities. The US had withdrawn its Adams-era support for L'Ouverture, ended its naval war with France, and could very easily have occupied Louisiana had it chosen to do so, much like the Prussians occupied Hanover at about the same time. Napoleon could not fight and win a war with the Americans over Haiti or Louisiana, even had the Leclerc expedition somehow not succumbed to mosquitoes, and he knew this. As it was, Napoleon managed to escape from the whole situation, avoiding throwing good money after bad, and actually earning a profit on the whole thing himself.
 
More or less. The emissaries were instructed to seek the purchase of New Orleans and Spanish Florida, with the former being the overwhelming priority. At the greatest extremity, Monroe was permitted to offer $10 million for both New Orleans and Florida, but was authorized to spend about $9 million for New Orleans alone if he could not obtain Florida. Napoleon's ultimate offer was an embarrassment to the utterly unprepared American delegation, which ended up seizing the day and signing the treaty sub spe rati in the hopes that the Senate would ratify it.

"Colossal" would be a bit of an overstatement, to be fair. The point is really that the Americans gave Napoleon any money at all. Remember, the French empire in the west, during the period of the Treaty of Amiens, existed almost wholly at the sufferance of the American authorities. The US had withdrawn its Adams-era support for L'Ouverture, ended its naval war with France, and could very easily have occupied Louisiana had it chosen to do so, much like the Prussians occupied Hanover at about the same time. Napoleon could not fight and win a war with the Americans over Haiti or Louisiana, even had the Leclerc expedition somehow not succumbed to mosquitoes, and he knew this. As it was, Napoleon managed to escape from the whole situation, avoiding throwing good money after bad, and actually earning a profit on the whole thing himself.

It seems quite common to spell Hanover instead of Hannover in English. Why?
 
A quick Google says that in 1803 the US had receipts of $5 million and spending of $8 million and the Louisiana purchase cost $11 million in cash and $4 million in debt forgiveness, so pretty significant. It also indicated that the cash payment represented about 10% of the French budget. But I can't vouch for reliability of numbers
 
Actually, I was expecting the value to be much larger in comparison to the yearly budget. Wasn't the budget in the US at the time very small (the aversion to paying taxes and all that.). And if it was little more than one year's worth then the actual sum wasn't very impressive.No wonder Napoleon managed to blow it all so quickly.

That comparison to Hitler someone make in other thread wasn't adequate just about the way he handled diplomacy. His handling of finances must also have been atrocious, he kept pillaging the places he invaded to finance his wars (with the english helping carrying the booty to France in at least one occasion, btw).

Say, was the french government running out of money anyway by 1814? I'm asking because of the Hitler/Napoleon parallels. He too got his opportunity to rise to power after the previous regime failed to handle an economic crisis. He too claimed to have sorted out the finances of the country and had others to do it for him, and those did it by confiscating a lot of stuff from newly-declared public enemies.
 
Actually, I was expecting the value to be much larger in comparison to the yearly budget. Wasn't the budget in the US at the time very small (the aversion to paying taxes and all that.)
Less an aversion to taxes entirely and more towards Federal taxes. State and local taxes were going strong in the early republic.
 
Same reason Braunschweig is Brunswick in English.

Or Bayern is Bavaria. Or Roma is Rome. Moreover the same reason London is Londre in French and Londres in Spanish.
 
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